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Old 2015-09-21, 22:30   #1
Xyzzy
 
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"Mike"
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Default Network logging?

We would like to allow the feral teenager that lives with us to have access to the Internet.

However, we would like to be able to see where he visits. We plan to let him know that we may (or may not) look at the logs.

We feel that allowing him to have unlimited access without any oversight might be a bad idea. We also feel that imposing draconian filters would just drive him to find ways to work around them. We know he will eventually be exposed to all sorts of bad things on the Internet but we would like to know about it so that we have the opportunity to talk with him about stuff like that.

We have found that it is very easy for him to burn up several hours watching YouTube videos. A way to apply time controls to his account would be very cool.

His computer, like ours, has Debian 8. We are forced to use an AT&T router that has no logging or allow/deny capabilities.

We have in the past tried several methods to maintain accountability. He knows how to delete the history, how to delete only parts of the history and how to use "private" tabs.

Things we have considered:
A secondary router that has logging and time control capabilities, just for him. (Do they make them?)
A packet sniffing app. (Although that seems too deep. We really just want to know what sites he visits.)

If Iceweasel (Firefox) just wrote the HTTP request stuff to a system log or provided an allow/deny function that would be a start. Or if there was a non-erasable history feature that might work, too.

We can't be the only ones in the world who want to log HTTP activity, right?

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Old 2015-09-21, 22:37   #2
science_man_88
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We would like to allow the feral teenager that lives with us to have access to the Internet.

However, we would like to be able to see where he visits. We plan to let him know that we may (or may not) look at the logs.

We feel that allowing him to have unlimited access without any oversight might be a bad idea. We also feel that imposing draconian filters would just drive him to find ways to work around them. We know he will eventually be exposed to all sorts of bad things on the Internet but we would like to know about it so that we have the opportunity to talk with him about stuff like that.

We have found that it is very easy for him to burn up several hours watching YouTube videos. A way to apply time controls to his account would be very cool.

His computer, like ours, has Debian 8. We are forced to use an AT&T router that has no logging or allow/deny capabilities.

We have in the past tried several methods to maintain accountability. He knows how to delete the history, how to delete only parts of the history and how to use "private" tabs.

Things we have considered:
A secondary router that has logging and time control capabilities, just for him. (Do they make them?)
A packet sniffing app. (Although that seems too deep. We really just want to know what sites he visits.)

If Iceweasel (Firefox) just wrote the HTTP request stuff to a system log or provided an allow/deny function that would be a start. Or if there was a non-erasable history feature that might work, too.

We can't be the only ones in the world who want to log HTTP activity, right?

http://serverfault.com/questions/294...e-http-traffic ? one of these was brought up on another thread on this forum as well.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2015-09-21 at 22:37
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Old 2015-09-21, 23:05   #3
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We would like to allow the feral teenager that lives with us to have access to the Internet.
Like you have a choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
However, we would like to be able to see where he visits. We plan to let him know that we may (or may not) look at the logs.
I have the same feeling about my cats; I don't know where they go, but they often come back with cuts, bruises and bites (and twice, dead). Short of keeping them locked up in a padded room, there are not many other options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We feel that allowing him to have unlimited access without any oversight might be a bad idea. We also feel that imposing draconian filters would just drive him to find ways to work around them. We know he will eventually be exposed to all sorts of bad things on the Internet but we would like to know about it so that we have the opportunity to talk with him about stuff like that.
IMHO, the only thing a parent can do is to empower a child with knowledge, and trust your training is sound.

Trust is the key thing here. Make sure your spawn knows they can talk to you if and when they need to do so about anything.
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Old 2015-09-22, 03:09   #4
potonono
 
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You could consider setting up a proxy server on your local network. Something like http://www.squid-cache.org/. That could log traffic and control access. Additionally requiring or enforcing local web traffic to go thru a local server might be as much of a headache as collecting and parsing wireshark logs though.
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Old 2015-09-22, 08:43   #5
Nick
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We would like to allow the feral teenager that lives with us to have access to the Internet.
However, we would like to be able to see where he visits. We plan to let him know that we may (or may not) look at the logs....
We have in the past tried several methods to maintain accountability. He knows how to delete the history, how to delete only parts of the history and how to use "private" tabs...
We can't be the only ones in the world who want to log HTTP activity, right?
With more and more websites moving to https and more and more WiFi access points everywhere, any logging or filtering will only be partial. And even if you managed to log the URL of every YouTube video, for example, you would still have to look it up (or even watch it yourself) to find out what the content was.

Can you discuss your concerns with him and agree a joint approach? Can you share funny or interesting things you come across on the Internet with him and encourage him to share what he does with you? Can you both get into the habit of surfing the web from a shared room in your home instead of your individual private rooms?
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Old 2015-09-22, 12:22   #6
Mini-Geek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
IMHO, the only thing a parent can do is to empower a child with knowledge, and trust your training is sound.

Trust is the key thing here. Make sure your spawn knows they can talk to you if and when they need to do so about anything.


Clever kids can get around any technological barrier/monitoring you put up, if they want to. And if they're not comfortable talking to you about [whatever you might call them out on from the logs], then they'll probably do something to make that thing not show up on the logs. All you can do is help them make good choices on their own, and help them be willing to talk to you about how to make those good choices.
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Old 2015-09-23, 09:03   #7
blip
 
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You want to setup a Squid Proxy with SSL Bump as a gateway between your local network and the internet router. As far as I know, this is not a readily available out-of-the-box setup, so you are up to some research and testing.
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Old 2015-09-23, 15:17   #8
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blip View Post
As far as I know, this is not a readily available out-of-the-box setup, so you are up to some research and testing.
A solution I deployed for a call centre here (~120 seats) was Untangle. Requires a dedicated box (or a virtual machine with some IPTables magic), but it is quite easy to use.
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Old 2015-09-24, 10:04   #9
kladner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Like you have a choice.



I have the same feeling about my cats; I don't know where they go, but they often come back with cuts, bruises and bites (and twice, dead). Short of keeping them locked up in a padded room, there are not many other options.



IMHO, the only thing a parent can do is to empower a child with knowledge, and trust your training is sound.

Trust is the key thing here. Make sure your spawn knows they can talk to you if and when they need to do so about anything.
I double down on this, and also in what Nick said. Spying engenders distrust.
Also
Quote:
All you can do is help them make good choices on their own, and help them be willing to talk to you about how to make those good choices.
To which I would add, Make it possible for them to talk to you if poor choices disturb them. Trust and sharing are everything.

One of my parents destroyed trust and penalized sharing through most of (its) life. I learned not to share as much as I could cover up from first grade on, in an extremely bad school environment. In my later teens (post Freshman college) this person threatened to call the police on me for smoking pot. This was only one of many such betrayals.

Be careful and respectful.
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Old 2015-09-24, 16:32   #10
chris2be8
 
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It's probably worth telling him that the NSA will be recording nearly everything he does on the web. Which should discourage blatantly illegal activities without losing trust.

Chris
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Old 2015-09-25, 17:55   #11
kladner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris2be8 View Post
It's probably worth telling him that the NSA will be recording nearly everything he does on the web. Which should discourage blatantly illegal activities without losing trust.

Chris
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