mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Math Stuff > Tales From the Crypt(o)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2016-06-20, 10:17   #12
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

22×3×11×83 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Then people will be able to sign their own code.No. People will be able to upload their own code and thus ensure their security is not being compromised.QCs are not magic. And there is no known QC technology that comes anywhere near being able to handle 2048 bit RSA numbers. Maybe 3 or 4 bit RSA numbers could be vulnerable to a QC today.
Closer to 6 or 7 bit numbers.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-06-29, 15:31   #13
Xyzzy
 
Xyzzy's Avatar
 
Aug 2002

207616 Posts
Default

We are much more open to the idea of using AMD processors after reading this thread.

Xyzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-01, 22:12   #14
Xyzzy
 
Xyzzy's Avatar
 
Aug 2002

2×3×5×277 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We are much more open to the idea of using AMD processors after reading this thread.
On a lark, we decided to build a budget gaming box for "World of Tanks" so we went with AMD.

Code:
AMD Athlon X4 880k with AMD quiet cooler Quad-Core Socket FM2+ 95W AD880KXBJCSBX Desktop Processor
SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 480 100406L PCI Express 3.0 Video Card
MSI A88XI AC V2 FM2+ AMD A88X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Mini ITX AMD Motherboard
Cooler Master Elite 130 - Mini-ITX Computer Case with Mesh Front Panel and Water Cooling Support
Crucial  Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600 (PC3L  12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model BLT2K4G3D1608ET3LX0
CORSAIR CX series CX430 430W 80 PLUS BRONZE Active PFC ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply
Crucial BX200 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT240BX200SSD1
Xyzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-02, 00:00   #15
henryzz
Just call me Henry
 
henryzz's Avatar
 
"David"
Sep 2007
Cambridge (GMT/BST)

25·5·37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
On a lark, we decided to build a budget gaming box for "World of Tanks" so we went with AMD.

Code:
AMD Athlon X4 880k with AMD quiet cooler Quad-Core Socket FM2+ 95W AD880KXBJCSBX Desktop Processor
SAPPHIRE Radeon RX 480 100406L PCI Express 3.0 Video Card
MSI A88XI AC V2 FM2+ AMD A88X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Mini ITX AMD Motherboard
Cooler Master Elite 130 - Mini-ITX Computer Case with Mesh Front Panel and Water Cooling Support
Crucial  Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600 (PC3L  12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model BLT2K4G3D1608ET3LX0
CORSAIR CX series CX430 430W 80 PLUS BRONZE Active PFC ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply
Crucial BX200 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT240BX200SSD1
Shouldn't exactly need much for World of Tanks. My Q6600 paired with a 750Ti runs World of Warships absolutely fine. I would imagine that the recent APUs would probably run it with no issues at good quality.
henryzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-02, 00:04   #16
TObject
 
TObject's Avatar
 
Feb 2012

6258 Posts
Smile

Unless "World of Tanks" is some fancy fluid dynamics software.
TObject is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-02, 02:30   #17
ewmayer
2ω=0
 
ewmayer's Avatar
 
Sep 2002
República de California

2×3×29×67 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TObject View Post
Unless "World of Tanks" is some fancy fluid dynamics software.
Spreading viscous gaming-related rumors, are we?
ewmayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-02, 08:13   #18
Dubslow
Basketry That Evening!
 
Dubslow's Avatar
 
"Bunslow the Bold"
Jun 2011
40<A<43 -89<O<-88

3×29×83 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We are much more open to the idea of using AMD processors after reading this thread.

AMD is just as bad.

https://libreboot.org/faq/#amd

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunk
This is basically AMD's own version of the Intel Management Engine. It has all of the same basic security and freedom issues, although the implementation is wildly different.

The Platform Security Processor (PSP) is built in on all Family 16h + systems (basically anything post-2013), and controls the main x86 core startup. PSP firmware is cryptographically signed with a strong key similar to the Intel ME. If the PSP firmware is not present, or if the AMD signing key is not present, the x86 cores will not be released from reset, rendering the system inoperable.

The PSP is an ARM core with TrustZone technology, built onto the main CPU die. As such, it has the ability to hide its own program code, scratch RAM, and any data it may have taken and stored from the lesser-privileged x86 system RAM (kernel encryption keys, login data, browsing history, keystrokes, who knows!). To make matters worse, the PSP theoretically has access to the entire system memory space (AMD either will not or cannot deny this, and it would seem to be required to allow the DRM "features" to work as intended), which means that it has at minimum MMIO-based access to the network controllers and any other PCI/PCIe peripherals installed on the system.

In theory any malicious entity with access to the AMD signing key would be able to install persistent malware that could not be eradicated without an external flasher and a known good PSP image.
Dubslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-07-02, 09:51   #19
jasonp
Tribal Bullet
 
jasonp's Avatar
 
Oct 2004

3·1,181 Posts
Default

These things are in place because it's too expensive to build more than one cutting edge processor product. So if one portion of the market wants a feature then everybody gets it. Software products are only a little better.

The open hardware movement is still in its infancy (see www.opencores.org); even designing computer hardware is a hugely difficult and specialized skill, though FPGAs are powerful enough nowadays to easily fit a desktop-class processor if you spend enough money on one. Of course FPGAs have to be fabricated by someone who you then have to trust.

Last fiddled with by jasonp on 2016-07-02 at 14:56 Reason: fix link
jasonp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-09, 02:19   #20
ewmayer
2ω=0
 
ewmayer's Avatar
 
Sep 2002
República de California

2D8A16 Posts
Default

MINIX: ​Intel's hidden in-chip operating system | ZDNet: Buried deep inside your computer's Intel chip is the MINIX operating system and a software stack, which includes networking and a web server. It's slow, hard to get at, and insecure as insecure can be.
Quote:
If you learned about operating systems in the late '80s and early '90s, you knew MINIX as Andrew S Tanenbaum's educational Unix-like operating system. It was used to teach operating system principles. Today, it's best known as the OS that inspired Linus Torvalds to create Linux.

So, what's it doing in Intel chips? A lot. These processors are running a closed-source variation of the open-source MINIX 3. We don't know exactly what version or how it's been modified since we don't have the source code. We do know that with it there:

o Neither Linux nor any other operating system have final control of the x86 platform
o Between the operating system and the hardware are at least 2 ½ OS kernels (MINIX and UEFI)
o These are proprietary and (perhaps not surprisingly) exploit-friendly
o And the exploits can persist, i.e. be written to FLASH, and you can't fix that

In addition, thanks to Minnich and his fellow researchers' work, MINIX is running on three separate x86 cores on modern chips. There, it's running:

o TCP/IP networking stacks (4 and 6)
o File systems
o Drivers (disk, net, USB, mouse)
o Web servers

MINIX also has access to your passwords. It can also reimage your computer's firmware even if it's powered off. Let me repeat that. If your computer is "off" but still plugged in, MINIX can still potentially change your computer's fundamental settings.

And, for even more fun, it "can implement self-modifying code that can persist across power cycles". So, if an exploit happens here, even if you unplug your server in one last desperate attempt to save it, the attack will still be there waiting for you when you plug it back in.
In other what-could-go-wrong news courtesy of our friends in Big Data Inc., Facebook asks users for nude photos in project to combat revenge porn. (No, that is not a headline from The Onion.)
ewmayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-23, 01:48   #21
ewmayer
2ω=0
 
ewmayer's Avatar
 
Sep 2002
República de California

2·3·29·67 Posts
Default

Latest on the debacle that is the IME:

Intel: We've found severe bugs in secretive Management Engine, affecting millions | ZDNet

And on a more hopeful note:

Researchers Find a Way to Disable Much-Hated Intel ME Component Courtesy of the NSA | Bleeping Computer

Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2017-11-23 at 01:48
ewmayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-23, 03:02   #22
retina
Undefined
 
retina's Avatar
 
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

22×1,571 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
I find this to be less than satisfying because ...
Quote:
According to a highly technical blog post, Positive Technologies experts revealed they discovered a hidden bit inside the firmware code, which when flipped (set to "1") it will disable ME after ME has done its job and booted up the main processor.
ME still runs and we have to take it on faith that it disables itself.
retina is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intel Processor Speculations Mark Rose Hardware 109 2017-10-13 16:55
64 bit intel processor? Unregistered Hardware 2 2006-08-30 22:21
Intel Core Duo processor drew Hardware 5 2006-05-29 07:00
Intel processor lineup Peter Nelson Hardware 12 2005-07-04 20:42
Which type of Intel processor to choose? Mike Hardware 11 2004-12-21 04:10

All times are UTC. The time now is 12:43.


Fri Oct 22 12:43:37 UTC 2021 up 91 days, 7:12, 1 user, load averages: 1.02, 1.23, 1.25

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.