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Old 2008-11-13, 16:42   #89
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Yet another impossible/unbelievable claim from a crank.
Yet another misunderstanding of a commonly made simplification. One which I've used on occasion when the meaning is clear and one which I've heard from other active users of NFS.

Raman almost certainly means "the special-q which lie in a range of 1.2 million". One prime in 33 is a reasonable figure for the density of special-q in a "typical" sieving region.

Ok, his statement wasn't precise but I think you should have been able to work out what he meant without any difficulty and could have been rather more polite in drawing his attention to the possibility of his statement misleading others.


Paul
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Old 2008-11-14, 12:50   #90
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Yet another misunderstanding of a commonly made simplification. One which I've used on occasion when the meaning is clear and one which I've heard from other active users of NFS.

Raman almost certainly means "the special-q which lie in a range of 1.2 million". One prime in 33 is a reasonable figure for the density of special-q in a "typical" sieving region.

Ok, his statement wasn't precise but I think you should have been able to work out what he meant without any difficulty and could have been rather more polite in drawing his attention to the possibility of his statement misleading others.


Paul
Once again:

It is not the duty of a reader to "work out" what is meant.
When one makes a mathematical statement in a public forum, it is the
obligation of the author to clearly state what is meant.

There is a big difference between

1.2 million special q

and

special q in a range of length 1.2 million.

I assume that if one means the latter, then one will write the latter and
not the former. I assume that people mean what they say (or write).
To me, not to do so is disrespectful. It would mean that either the
person is too stupid to accurately convey his meaning *or* that he is
too lazy and sloppy to be bothered. Either assumption is an insult.

Last fiddled with by R.D. Silverman on 2008-11-14 at 12:51 Reason: fix typo/spelling
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Old 2008-11-14, 13:38   #91
rogue
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Once again:

It is not the duty of a reader to "work out" what is meant. When one makes a mathematical statement in a public forum, it is the obligation of the author to clearly state what is meant.

There is a big difference between

1.2 million special q

and

special q in a range of length 1.2 million.

I assume that if one means the latter, then one will write the latter and not the former. I assume that people mean what they say (or write). To me, not to do so is disrespectful. It would mean that either the person is too stupid to accurately convey his meaning *or* that he is too lazy and sloppy to be bothered. Either assumption is an insult.
I disagree with you Bob. Raman's might not be fluent enough in English (if it isn't his native tongue). All of us have seen bad translations, some of them quite humorous. It is possible (I don't know if he is fluent in English or what his native tongue is) that it makes sense to him when he translates back into his native tongue, but doesn't make sense to us.

Also, this is a public forum of which math is only one part of, not a journal subject to peer review or a private math forum. IMO, the proper response would have been to ask Raman to clarify his statement because it was confusing. Instead you immediately attack him as a crank. Granted there are some people on this forum who write rather incredulous or just plain stupid things on a frequent basis. I'm certain that they rank high on your crank-o-meter. I haven't put Raman is in that category.
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Old 2008-11-14, 15:48   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
I disagree with you Bob. Raman's might not be fluent enough in English (if it isn't his native tongue). All of us have seen bad translations, some of them quite humorous. It is possible (I don't know if he is fluent in English or what his native tongue is) that it makes sense to him when he translates back into his native tongue, but doesn't make sense to us.

Also, this is a public forum of which math is only one part of, not a journal subject to peer review or a private math forum. IMO, the proper response would have been to ask Raman to clarify his statement because it was confusing. Instead you immediately attack him as a crank. Granted there are some people on this forum who write rather incredulous or just plain stupid things on a frequent basis. I'm certain that they rank high on your crank-o-meter. I haven't put Raman is in that category.
I assume that you weren't the victim of many months of daily mail bombs
from Raman; hundreds of junk mails per day containing total gibberish.....

Have you read his prior efforts on this forum??????

Peut etre vous voudrais parler en francais?
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Old 2008-12-08, 07:20   #93
frmky
 
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10,287- is done. Here's the log:

Code:
Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008  Msieve v. 1.38
Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008  random seeds: 8f4b6e77 241acd48
Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008  factoring 20126044953446465498628017355429781454947611138799299869415474428303759336392201057473088367031192277123721763741349447238767164079624055237241609803442136356461466722803384508668805269754642914396850180213735249 (212 digits)
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  no P-1/P+1/ECM available, skipping
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  commencing number field sieve (212-digit input)
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  R0: -100000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  R1:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A0:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A1:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A2:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A3:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A4:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A5:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  A6:  1
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  size score = 8.842478e-12, Murphy alpha = 2.427706, combined = 4.419103e-12
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  commencing relation filtering
Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008  commencing duplicate removal, pass 1
... relation errors snipped ...
Mon Nov 10 22:03:22 2008  found 13194370 hash collisions in 91907293 relations
Mon Nov 10 22:03:22 2008  commencing duplicate removal, pass 2
Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008  found 1017462 duplicates and 90889831 unique relations
Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008  memory use: 504.8 MB
Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008  reading rational ideals above 50003968
Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008  reading algebraic ideals above 50003968
Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 1
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 0 large ideals: 873143
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 1 large ideals: 3379758
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 2 large ideals: 12876690
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 3 large ideals: 26772739
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 4 large ideals: 29583128
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 5 large ideals: 14987883
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 6 large ideals: 448108
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  relations with 7+ large ideals: 1968382
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  90889831 relations and about 62412552 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 2
Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008  found 14403513 singletons
Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008  current dataset: 76486318 relations and about 47022077 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 3
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 0 large ideals: 873143
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 1 large ideals: 3218924
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 2 large ideals: 11639352
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 3 large ideals: 22965625
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 4 large ideals: 24008263
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 5 large ideals: 11515062
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 6 large ideals: 341885
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  relations with 7+ large ideals: 1924064
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  76486318 relations and about 59049760 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 4
Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008  found 11860075 singletons
Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008  current dataset: 64626243 relations and about 46394911 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 5
Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008  found 2397232 singletons
Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008  current dataset: 62229011 relations and about 43959616 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008  commencing singleton removal, pass 6
Mon Nov 10 23:51:48 2008  found 435595 singletons
Mon Nov 10 23:51:48 2008  current dataset: 61793416 relations and about 43522630 large ideals
Mon Nov 10 23:51:49 2008  commencing singleton removal, final pass
Tue Nov 11 00:18:52 2008  memory use: 1269.9 MB
Tue Nov 11 00:18:52 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 00:19:07 2008  begin with 61793416 relations and 50482201 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 00:24:05 2008  reduce to 55396388 relations and 43935663 ideals in 16 passes
Tue Nov 11 00:24:05 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 30
Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008  reading rational ideals above 720000
Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008  reading algebraic ideals above 720000
Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008  commencing singleton removal, final pass
Tue Nov 11 01:18:12 2008  keeping 46141288 ideals with weight <= 20, new excess is 3796548
Tue Nov 11 01:20:21 2008  memory use: 1851.0 MB
Tue Nov 11 01:20:21 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:20:36 2008  begin with 55396461 relations and 46141288 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:21:39 2008  reduce to 55396428 relations and 46141245 ideals in 3 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:21:39 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:23:14 2008  removing 2947481 relations and 2547481 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:23:19 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:23:36 2008  begin with 52448947 relations and 46141245 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:25:51 2008  reduce to 52365553 relations and 43509601 ideals in 7 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:25:51 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:27:21 2008  removing 2182039 relations and 1782039 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:27:26 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:27:39 2008  begin with 50183514 relations and 43509601 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:29:33 2008  reduce to 50131107 relations and 41674734 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:29:33 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:30:58 2008  removing 1937709 relations and 1537709 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:31:03 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:31:15 2008  begin with 48193398 relations and 41674734 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:33:22 2008  reduce to 48148281 relations and 40091558 ideals in 7 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:33:22 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:34:43 2008  removing 1794226 relations and 1394226 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:34:46 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:34:59 2008  begin with 46354055 relations and 40091558 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:36:44 2008  reduce to 46311786 relations and 38654726 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:36:44 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:38:02 2008  removing 1703623 relations and 1303623 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:38:06 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:38:18 2008  begin with 44608163 relations and 38654726 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:39:56 2008  reduce to 44567089 relations and 37309709 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:39:56 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:41:11 2008  removing 1639485 relations and 1239485 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:41:14 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:41:27 2008  begin with 42927604 relations and 37309709 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:43:01 2008  reduce to 42887160 relations and 36029452 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:43:01 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:44:13 2008  removing 1590353 relations and 1190353 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:44:15 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:44:27 2008  begin with 41296807 relations and 36029452 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:45:58 2008  reduce to 41257865 relations and 34799805 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:45:58 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:47:08 2008  removing 1546307 relations and 1146307 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:47:10 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:47:23 2008  begin with 39711558 relations and 34799805 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:48:50 2008  reduce to 39670600 relations and 33612182 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:48:50 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:49:54 2008  removing 1519503 relations and 1119503 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:49:58 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:50:09 2008  begin with 38151097 relations and 33612182 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:51:31 2008  reduce to 38108339 relations and 32449537 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:51:31 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:52:35 2008  removing 1496184 relations and 1096184 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:52:38 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:52:48 2008  begin with 36612155 relations and 32449537 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:54:07 2008  reduce to 36567059 relations and 31307831 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:54:07 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:55:09 2008  removing 1482433 relations and 1082433 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:55:11 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:55:23 2008  begin with 35084626 relations and 31307831 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:56:38 2008  reduce to 35037500 relations and 30177776 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:56:38 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:57:36 2008  removing 1472872 relations and 1072872 ideals in 400000 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:57:38 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 01:57:49 2008  begin with 33564628 relations and 30177776 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 01:59:01 2008  reduce to 33513783 relations and 29053509 ideals in 6 passes
Tue Nov 11 01:59:01 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 01:59:56 2008  removing 284668 relations and 228390 ideals in 56278 cliques
Tue Nov 11 01:59:58 2008  commencing in-memory singleton removal
Tue Nov 11 02:00:09 2008  begin with 33229115 relations and 29053509 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 02:00:55 2008  reduce to 33227540 relations and 28823541 ideals in 4 passes
Tue Nov 11 02:00:55 2008  max relations containing the same ideal: 20
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 0 large ideals: 321908
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 1 large ideals: 1206714
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 2 large ideals: 4482921
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 3 large ideals: 8827594
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 4 large ideals: 9567269
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 5 large ideals: 5689153
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 6 large ideals: 1740071
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  relations with 7+ large ideals: 1391910
Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008  commencing 2-way merge
Tue Nov 11 02:02:20 2008  reduce to 23999301 relation sets and 19595301 unique ideals
Tue Nov 11 02:02:20 2008  commencing full merge
Tue Nov 11 02:17:29 2008  memory use: 1926.5 MB
Tue Nov 11 02:17:40 2008  found 12232120 cycles, need 11625501
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  weight of 11625501 cycles is about 814043256 (70.02/cycle)
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  distribution of cycle lengths:
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  1 relations: 1180049
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  2 relations: 1364624
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  3 relations: 1485146
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  4 relations: 1413021
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  5 relations: 1300672
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  6 relations: 1134595
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  7 relations: 969223
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  8 relations: 804803
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  9 relations: 651754
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  10+ relations: 1321614
Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008  heaviest cycle: 17 relations
Tue Nov 11 02:18:04 2008  commencing cycle optimization
Tue Nov 11 02:19:21 2008  start with 61033420 relations
Tue Nov 11 02:31:54 2008  pruned 1834615 relations
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  memory use: 1951.0 MB
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  distribution of cycle lengths:
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  1 relations: 1180049
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  2 relations: 1398906
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  3 relations: 1550499
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  4 relations: 1463809
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  5 relations: 1350767
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  6 relations: 1164868
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  7 relations: 987404
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  8 relations: 803296
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  9 relations: 633809
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  10+ relations: 1092094
Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008  heaviest cycle: 16 relations
Tue Nov 11 02:33:01 2008  
Tue Nov 11 02:33:15 2008  commencing linear algebra
Tue Nov 11 02:33:18 2008  read 11625501 cycles
Tue Nov 11 02:38:03 2008  cycles contain 31406379 unique relations
Tue Nov 11 02:45:21 2008  read 31406379 relations
Tue Nov 11 02:48:20 2008  using 32 quadratic characters above 1073741720
Tue Nov 11 02:55:57 2008  building initial matrix
Tue Nov 11 03:22:46 2008  memory use: 4007.0 MB
Tue Nov 11 03:23:03 2008  read 11625501 cycles
Tue Nov 11 03:23:21 2008  matrix is 11625245 x 11625501 (3481.3 MB) with weight 1075025815 (92.47/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:23:21 2008  sparse part has weight 784719819 (67.50/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:38:55 2008  filtering completed in 3 passes
Tue Nov 11 03:39:02 2008  matrix is 11605323 x 11605523 (3479.2 MB) with weight 1074223085 (92.56/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:39:02 2008  sparse part has weight 784396726 (67.59/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:42:05 2008  read 11605523 cycles
Tue Nov 11 03:42:23 2008  matrix is 11605323 x 11605523 (3479.2 MB) with weight 1074223085 (92.56/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:42:23 2008  sparse part has weight 784396726 (67.59/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:42:24 2008  saving the first 48 matrix rows for later
Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008  matrix is 11605275 x 11605523 (3337.4 MB) with weight 830771297 (71.58/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008  sparse part has weight 758833333 (65.39/col)
Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008  matrix includes 64 packed rows
Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008  using block size 65536 for processor cache size 2048 kB
Tue Nov 11 03:44:24 2008  commencing Lanczos iteration (8 threads)
Tue Nov 11 03:44:24 2008  memory use: 3893.5 MB
Sun Dec  7 13:59:44 2008  lanczos halted after 183512 iterations (dim = 11605273)
Sun Dec  7 14:00:36 2008  recovered 50 nontrivial dependencies
Sun Dec  7 14:00:37 2008  
Sun Dec  7 14:00:37 2008  commencing square root phase
Sun Dec  7 14:00:37 2008  reading relations for dependency 1
Sun Dec  7 14:00:42 2008  read 5802291 cycles
Sun Dec  7 14:02:32 2008  cycles contain 19657467 unique relations
Sun Dec  7 14:07:32 2008  read 19657467 relations
Sun Dec  7 14:15:53 2008  multiplying 15700252 relations
Sun Dec  7 15:30:32 2008  multiply complete, coefficients have about 395.80 million bits
Sun Dec  7 15:30:59 2008  initial square root is modulo 12643487
Sun Dec  7 17:36:17 2008  reading relations for dependency 2
Sun Dec  7 17:36:21 2008  read 5804179 cycles
Sun Dec  7 17:38:12 2008  cycles contain 19660470 unique relations
Sun Dec  7 17:43:12 2008  read 19660470 relations
Sun Dec  7 17:51:40 2008  multiplying 15702896 relations
Sun Dec  7 19:07:03 2008  multiply complete, coefficients have about 395.86 million bits
Sun Dec  7 19:07:31 2008  initial square root is modulo 12679273
Sun Dec  7 21:12:35 2008  prp72 factor: 386736023165016911595773048286586040278275120007787504683197800313250373
Sun Dec  7 21:12:35 2008  prp140 factor: 52040781690664633087476019587971179912361405549597272673699110341655196644796952133433276282056803909903743017483300968477469368178954534813
Sun Dec  7 21:12:35 2008  elapsed time 647:28:34
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Old 2008-12-08, 12:09   #94
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frmky View Post
10,287- is done. Here's the log:
Very nice.

I have started the linear algebra for 2,836+. The matrix has
7.4M columns and should take about 39 days. I am using the CWI
solver which is only single threaded and is slower than msieve even
when msieve only uses a single thread. The matrix barely fits
on my 2Gb machine.

I have also started sieving for 7,277+. I will almost certainly need
someone else to do its LA. I simply don't have a machine that I
can use that has enough memory.
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Old 2008-12-08, 12:15   #95
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
I have also started sieving for 7,277+. I will almost certainly need someone else to do its LA. I simply don't have a machine that I
can use that has enough memory.
It seems likely that I will be able to provide.

Paul
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Old 2009-04-17, 21:35   #96
frmky
 
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Jul 2003
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11,244+ is complete. Per request, the log is attached rather than placed in code tags.

Greg
Attached Files
File Type: txt 11p244.txt (41.7 KB, 507 views)
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Old 2009-04-17, 22:44   #97
Xyzzy
 
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Quote:
Per request, the log is attached rather than placed in code tags.
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Old 2009-04-17, 22:50   #98
Batalov
 
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Mar 2008
Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2

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...but shame on you for not zipping it!
You gotta think green!

Congratulations!
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