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 2020-11-04, 10:42 #56 Ensigm   Aug 2020 2×3×19 Posts Cat 1 exponents with only Stage 1 P-1 are surprisingly rare. I'm now "reserving" for 30 days all the exponents in - 54.36 M, 54.37 M, 54.38 M and 54.39 M that has B1=B2≤730,000 and without a DC. These "reservations" only apply to factoring.
2020-11-04, 18:41   #57
S485122

Sep 2006
Brussels, Belgium

52×67 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ensigm ... These "reservations" only apply to factoring.
There is a reservation system ALSO for factoring. You choose to ignore it.
It seems to me you easily dismiss the work of others
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ensigm they wouldn't lose it, just that it wouldn't be so useful (to GIMPS)
People work finding factors or doing LL or PRP tests. When one returns a LL or PRP result for a number that is already factored one doesn't receive credit.

Please respect AND USE the reservation system : it is available for factoring work. Just look at the different columns in the Work Distribution Map.

Jacob

2020-11-05, 21:56   #58
Ensigm

Aug 2020

2×3×19 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by S485122 There is a reservation system ALSO for factoring.
I admit there is a small possibility that if I find a factor a few bits above the current TF limit, it is possible that it will clash someone else's TF assignment. But practically speaking TF assignments in this range are extremely rare (see reason below too). Plus, I only work on exponents that are not assigned at the moment I checked, and turn them in rapidly. As far as I know, I have never actually resulted in poaching anyone else's factor (or even seen a single exponent that has been assigned as TF before I turn in my work).

It's actually quite a dilemma here: I can, for sure, manually reserve these as TF, then do the P-1, and manually unreserve them. This would eliminate the possibility of accidentally poaching anyone else's factor. But on the other hand, this (or reserving these exponents as TF in general) would prevent DC being done on them, and the general belief is that it should be discouraged, according to discussions at this thread. To conclude, there's no perfect way to do it, but at least I'm comfortable with what I am doing.

Last fiddled with by Ensigm on 2020-11-05 at 22:02

2020-11-05, 22:31   #59
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502

"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

2·61·79 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ensigm I admit there is a small possibility that if I find a factor a few bits above the current TF limit, it is possible that it will clash someone else's TF assignment. But practically speaking TF assignments in this range are extremely rare (see reason below too).
Not so rare:
https://www.mersenne.org/assignments...first=1&exp1=1

2020-11-05, 23:06   #60
Ensigm

Aug 2020

11100102 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Uncwilly
You're right. But for me to "successfully" poach a factor, the corresponding exponent needs to
Quote:
 be assigned as TF in the short period (usually 2~7 days) between it is sent to my colab machine and is completed
and
Quote:
 have a factor within my P-1 bounds and only a few bits (usually one) above the old TF limit (~0.28% for 1 bit, ~0.54% for 2 bits)
As I've noted, the first condition has never been met. When it has been met for 200 times, I expect less than one poach to happen.

Last fiddled with by Ensigm on 2020-11-05 at 23:08

2020-11-06, 09:14   #61
S485122

Sep 2006
Brussels, Belgium

167510 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ensigm I admit there is a small possibility that if I find a factor a few bits above the current TF limit, it is possible that it will clash someone else's TF assignment. But practically speaking TF assignments in this range are extremely rare (see reason below too). Plus, I only work on exponents that are not assigned at the moment I checked, and turn them in rapidly. As far as I know, I have never actually resulted in poaching anyone else's factor (or even seen a single exponent that has been assigned as TF before I turn in my work). It's actually quite a dilemma here: I can, for sure, manually reserve these as TF, then do the P-1, and manually unreserve them. This would eliminate the possibility of accidentally poaching anyone else's factor. But on the other hand, this (or reserving these exponents as TF in general) would prevent DC being done on them, and the general belief is that it should be discouraged, according to discussions at this thread. To conclude, there's no perfect way to do it, but at least I'm comfortable with what I am doing.
What I tried to say, but obviously failed to do, is that there is only ONE reservation system : if an exponent is reserved for TF it will not be available for PRP, DC, P-1, if it is reserved for P-1 it will not be available for TF, PRP, LL, DC, and so on... The thread you cite is not about people doing TF in CAT 0, 1 or 2 ranges, but about the fact that the reservation system should not assign exponents for TF in those ranges until the wavefront left them behind.

One doesn't poach a factor. Poaching is about submitting (any) work on exponents reserved by others.

If you absolutely want to work on exponents in those ranges, choose exponents that have been double checked in the DC range or those that had a first test (that was not suspicious) in the first time check range. (Of course it is easier and less error prone to use the reservation system.

If you care about GIMPS and the other "participants" please use the reservation system.

Jacob

2020-11-06, 09:52   #62
Ensigm

Aug 2020

11410 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by S485122 there is only ONE reservation system : if an exponent is reserved for TF it will not be available for PRP, DC, P-1, if it is reserved for P-1 it will not be available for TF, PRP, LL, DC, and so on...
Ah, I get what you mean. I think we have different philosophies, that's all. I'm not going to participate in this debate further.

 2020-11-06, 10:05 #63 Ensigm   Aug 2020 2×3×19 Posts First half of 54.4M I'm now "reserving" for 30 days all the exponents in the first half of 54.4 M that has B1=B2≤730,000 and without a DC. These "reservations" only apply to factoring. Previous ranges 54.30 M, 54.31 M and 54.32 M (B1=B2≤730,000) should have been finished by now, and I am "unreserving" them. If I have missed any exponent in these ranges, feel free to pick them up. Last fiddled with by Ensigm on 2020-11-06 at 10:08
2020-11-07, 13:39   #64
Ensigm

Aug 2020

11410 Posts
New observation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ensigm I can, for sure, manually reserve these as TF, then do the P-1, and manually unreserve them.
New observation today: I actually reserved a few exponents (via manual GPU assignment Page) as TF, and used their assignment ids for doing P-1 on the same exponent. Guess what? When the P-1 job finished, the assignment was unreserved as well, which means I don't have to unreserve them manually! It will even update my P-1 progress. (Attached screenshot: Stage 1 of TF? That's kinda sus.)

So the problem now boils down only to the reservation part. Manual reservation is largely impractical because the exponents are often not continuous, which means you have to reserve them one by one (and then manually paste the AIDs). If only I can find a way to automate these...

I don't think these expos should be available for TF. If PrimeNet stops giving TF assignments in these ranges, then both me and TF doers are rogue agents, and the concept of poaching won't apply. Or PrimeNet could give an "overlay" type of assignment that doesn't interfere with DC. But before the rules change, it seems the only method to theoretically avoid clashes with other TF doers is by using the TF assignment system itself (the down side being it might delay DC for a few days). Still, need a way to automate them before this becomes practical.
Attached Thumbnails

Last fiddled with by Ensigm on 2020-11-07 at 13:45

 2020-11-07, 14:44 #65 firejuggler     Apr 2010 Over the rainbow 22×647 Posts currently running 32.1M and above, with a B1 of 500k and a B2 of 15M
 2020-11-07, 15:23 #66 Ensigm   Aug 2020 2·3·19 Posts Previous regions 54.33 M, 54.34 M and 54.35 M (B1=B2≤730,000) are finished (not many exponents fit the criteria), and I am "unreserving" them. If I have missed any, be free to pick them up.

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