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-   -   Are you afraid of the Covid Vaccine? (be honest) (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=26312)

ONeil 2020-12-15 04:44

Are you afraid of the Covid Vaccine? (be honest)
 
Will you be taking the Covid Vaccine? Do you feel its safe? Do you feel the vaccine really will improve your life and you will live a longer healthier life if you take it?

What are your thoughts on the Anti-vaxxers and all the conspiracies regarding Bill Gates and vaccines?


I have not made my mind up about taking the vaccine, I'm still mystified about Trump and Juliani getting over Covid in 3 days and saying they took a elite cocktail to solve the corona virus.

ONeil 2020-12-15 05:10

This is a government run website you guys just proved it by pushing this post from soap box to my blogorrhea. So Uncwilly and Greathouse I guess the vaccine is very important to Big Government the rabble take the jab eh

Watch and learn:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6zX2H8UFlI[/url]

[YOUTUBE]t6zX2H8UFlI[/YOUTUBE]

Uncwilly 2020-12-15 05:30

[URL="https://primes.utm.edu/notes/crackpot.html"]#26[/URL]

mathwiz 2020-12-15 06:04

[QUOTE=ONeil;566214]This is a government run website you guys just proved it by pushing this post from soap box to my blogorrhea. So Uncwilly and Greathouse I guess the vaccine is very important to Big Government the rabble take the jab eh[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you should protest by never posting on this site again?

LaurV 2020-12-15 06:10

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;566215][URL="https://primes.utm.edu/notes/crackpot.html"]#26[/URL][/QUOTE]
I would say it's more like #27, due to double score, and the "you are out to get me" attitude.

ONeil 2020-12-15 06:18

Ok guys post your cert jab covid vaccine papers and we shall see if you are all still around post [B][I][U]March 31, 2021[/U][/I][/B].

Go drink the cool aid I will still be here ok.:tu:

CRGreathouse 2020-12-15 06:23

[QUOTE=ONeil;566212]Will you be taking the Covid Vaccine? Do you feel its safe? Do you feel the vaccine really will improve your life and you will live a longer healthier life if you take it?[/QUOTE]

Let's be careful here. There are many different products out there, and it would be silly to say that they're either all safe or all unsafe, and similarly that they're either all efficacious or all inefficacious.

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is the one that has a US EUA, so I'll focus my attention there. (The Moderna vaccine and the Oxford vaccine are also very interesting and I'd be happy to discuss them. I'm less knowledgeable about the others.) It has strong evidence of efficacy in reducing cases of COVID in ages 16+. What does this mean, and what does this not mean?

There's a spectrum, in a sense, of being affected by SARS-CoV-2:

uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead

What has really been tested in this study is, in essence, this cutpoint:
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Red"]hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead[/COLOR]
So this particular vaccine does a good job of stopping the greens from becoming red. But the design doesn't give us much insight on what happens within the reds, and it doesn't give us any information on what happens within the greens at all.

The first part doesn't really bother me, because essentially every vaccine ever studied has been more effective at things like
[COLOR="Sienna"]uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Indigo"]dead[/COLOR]
compared to the first. They'll study it as best they're able, of course, but their ability to find out about it will depend on how long they can study as well as how bad the pandemic is. (The longer the study and the worse the pandemic, the more they can learn.)

But the second part is a big deal, because from a public health perspective you want to know about
[COLOR="Lime"]uninfected[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Pink"]asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead[/COLOR]
because you hope that the vaccine will slow transmission, and we don't have any data on that. It would be much less valuable if the vaccine merely protected the individual recipients but let them pass on the virus -- in fact, it could even make things worse. So until more is known on this important point, I'm not going to say I'm entirely in favor of this vaccine. But choosing not to decide is itself a choice, [url=https://genius.com/1989063]as Rush sings[/url], and in the absence of hard data one must act on the basis of available information: vaccinate, or hold off?

On the safety side it's easy to do a Baysean calculation on your own using the numbers from the study and projections for your region for infection, working in your age and other risk factors. One point here worth mentioning (unfortunately more study is needed, but the US government is proceeding with a great deal of caution here): there have been two reported cases of anaphylaxis which may and may not have been an allergic reaction to a component of the vaccine. Individuals with a history of anaphylaxis or other severe allergic reaction (to any vaccine component, stopper, etc.) may have a contraindication for the vaccine, and even if not, should only vaccinate if the risk profile is appropriate for them. Until more is known, such individuals should probably continue to isolate in preference to vaccinating. I do not have any details here but I understand that gelatin allergies have been particularly problematic, yet easily overlooked, allergies in the past.

But better than any of this: talk to your doctor, who knows your personal medical history.

[QUOTE=ONeil;566212]What are your thoughts on the Anti-vaxxers and all the conspiracies regarding Bill Gates and vaccines?[/QUOTE]

They're idiots.

CRGreathouse 2020-12-15 06:28

[QUOTE=ONeil;566218]we shall see if you are all still around post [B][I][U]March 31, 2021[/U][/I][/B].[/QUOTE]

Why don't you make that more concrete so when the date rolls around we can know unambiguously if you were right or wrong. What, precisely, are you predicting?

retina 2020-12-15 06:30

Which do you fear the most, the vaccine, or the virus?

If you strongly fear them both then enjoy your life locked away in seclusion for the rest of your life.

ONeil 2020-12-15 06:35

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;566219]Let's be careful here. There are many different products out there, and it would be silly to say that they're either all safe or all unsafe, and similarly that they're either all efficacious or all inefficacious.

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is the one that has a US EUA, so I'll focus my attention there. (The Moderna vaccine and the Oxford vaccine are also very interesting and I'd be happy to discuss them. I'm less knowledgeable about the others.) It has strong evidence of efficacy in reducing cases of COVID in ages 16+. What does this mean, and what does this not mean?

There's a spectrum, in a sense, of being affected by SARS-CoV-2:

uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead

What has really been tested in this study is, in essence, this cutpoint:
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Red"]hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead[/COLOR]
So this particular vaccine does a good job of stopping the greens from becoming red. But the design doesn't give us much insight on what happens within the reds, and it doesn't give us any information on what happens within the greens at all.

The first part doesn't really bother me, because essentially every vaccine ever studied has been more effective at things like
[COLOR="Sienna"]uninfected < asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Indigo"]dead[/COLOR]
compared to the first. They'll study it as best they're able, of course, but their ability to find out about it will depend on how long they can study as well as how bad the pandemic is. (The longer the study and the worse the pandemic, the more they can learn.)

But the second part is a big deal, because from a public health perspective you want to know about
[COLOR="Lime"]uninfected[/COLOR] vs. [COLOR="Pink"]asymptomatic < minimal symptoms < hospital inpatient < hospital ICU < ICU + vent < dead[/COLOR]
because you hope that the vaccine will slow transmission, and we don't have any data on that. It would be much less valuable if the vaccine merely protected the individual recipients but let them pass on the virus -- in fact, it could even make things worse. So until more is known on this important point, I'm not going to say I'm entirely in favor of this vaccine. But choosing not to decide is itself a choice, [url=https://genius.com/1989063]as Rush sings[/url], and in the absence of hard data one must act on the basis of available information: vaccinate, or hold off?

On the safety side it's easy to do a Baysean calculation on your own using the numbers from the study and projections for your region for infection, working in your age and other risk factors. One point here worth mentioning (unfortunately more study is needed, but the US government is proceeding with a great deal of caution here): there have been two reported cases of anaphylaxis which may and may not have been an allergic reaction to a component of the vaccine. Individuals with a history of anaphylaxis or other severe allergic reaction (to any vaccine component, stopper, etc.) may have a contraindication for the vaccine, and even if not, should only vaccinate if the risk profile is appropriate for them. Until more is known, such individuals should probably continue to isolate in preference to vaccinating. I do not have any details here but I understand that gelatin allergies have been particularly problematic, yet easily overlooked, allergies in the past.

But better than any of this: talk to your doctor, who knows your personal medical history.



They're idiots.[/QUOTE]

@GreatHouse,

That was a very intense and convoluted answer and I guessing your waiting to be vaccinated to see better results from the Pfizer vaccine am I wrong or right? So you say all anti-vaxxers are idiots eh. Well some people in the past if they could could cry out from their graves would say you are dead wrong no pun intended. Yet many have led productive lives saved from the ill effects of polio.

What get me is the rush with a new mRNA vaccine the first of its kind and I almost feel persecuted for asking questions of its safety?

ONeil 2020-12-15 06:41

[QUOTE=retina;566223]Which do you fear the most, the vaccine, or the virus?

If you strongly fear them both then enjoy your life locked away in seclusion for the rest of your life.[/QUOTE]


Hmmm a very bad flu that can kill I have a bad flu that nearly killed me when I was a young kid. I got over it. This mRNA vaccine I need to wait till 2022 and see if 2021 will have more deaths than 2020. And if I survive than I will not take it ok!

:picard:


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