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-   -   COVID vaccination wavefront (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=26332)

Uncwilly 2021-04-27 19:28

[QUOTE=xilman;577010]SWMBO now fully vaccinated.[/QUOTE]
So have you allowed her to move back in from the garden shed? Or will she have to wait 2 weeks?

PhilF 2021-04-27 20:33

Ummm...

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;577021]So [STRIKE]have you[/STRIKE] has she allowed [STRIKE]her[/STRIKE] you to move back in from the garden shed? Or will [STRIKE]she[/STRIKE] you have to wait 2 weeks?[/QUOTE]

Uncwilly 2021-04-27 20:46

[QUOTE=PhilF;577023]Ummm...[/QUOTE]
Either way. Or "Has cohabitation resumed at the royal residence, or will there be a fortnight remaining of social distancing at the palace?"

xilman 2021-04-28 07:53

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;577021]So have you allowed her to move back in from the garden shed? Or will she have to wait 2 weeks?[/QUOTE]I couldn't possibly comment.

pinhodecarlos 2021-04-29 20:49

[QUOTE=xilman;577010]SWMBO now fully vaccinated.[/QUOTE]

In-house finance minister taking her second dose tomorrow.

paulunderwood 2021-05-01 15:14

I had my second Pfiser jab yesterday. I am not feeling 100% well today.

pinhodecarlos 2021-05-01 15:58

[QUOTE=paulunderwood;577369]I had my second Pfiser jab yesterday. I am not feeling 100% well today.[/QUOTE]

Hope you get well soon. M felt less pain during the night vs first dose, headache but getting better now. Will book my first next Tuesday.

storm5510 2021-05-02 15:41

I read recently that many people who received the 1st shot are not going back for the 2nd. I can only guess the 1st one made them ill in some way or they think they just don't need the 2nd. The governor of the state I live in dropped the mask mandate in early April. A large majority of local businesses I have visited since did not change. They have signs on their entry doors stating masks are required to enter. Most people in these places adhere to the policy, but not all. Some wear them just to get in the front door, then take them off.

xilman 2021-05-02 16:13

[QUOTE=storm5510;577448]Some wear them just to get in the front door, then take them off.[/QUOTE]What was that old saying about underestimating the American public?

Dr Sardonicus 2021-05-03 13:56

[QUOTE=xilman;577451]What was that old saying about underestimating the American public?[/QUOTE]One quotation, attributed to H. L. Mencken: "No one in the world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the plain people."

Carl Sagan, in [u]Broca's Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science[/u] made the following observation:

"Both Barnum and H. L. Mencken are said to have made the depressing observation that no one ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. The remark has worldwide application. But the lack is not in intelligence, which is in plentiful supply; rather, the scarce commodity is systematic training in critical thinking."

slandrum 2021-05-03 14:17

In a couple hours I get my second jab.

I had covid last December and was seriously ill from it for the better part of a month and spent a few days in the hospital, but fortunately have recovered well. It's unclear given that whether I really need both shots, or whether the first show was really more like my second, but I'm definitely going to get the 2nd. I really don't want to have covid 19 again.

pinhodecarlos 2021-05-03 16:07

1st: 7th May 2nd: 23rd July.

Nick 2021-05-20 14:49

The Dutch government's invitation letter plays perfectly to our psychology:
"We have a vaccine ready for you. You don't have to take it, but it's free!"

kriesel 2021-05-20 15:30

(Be the first on your block to be fully vaccinated!)

xilman 2021-05-20 16:44

Second yesterday.

Been totally wiped out with lethargy all day but no other obvious symptoms.

I was warned. It's in the "Very Common (may affect more than 1 in 10 people) ... feeling tired (fatigue) ..." category in the documentation I was given.

LaurV 2021-05-20 17:53

so, that was a self-fulfilling, they should have tell you that you will feel wonderful... :razz:

bhelmes 2021-05-27 16:06

"First there comes all the important persons for the vaccination,
then there comes all the older generation,
and you not!"

"It is only a number theorist."

Nevertheless I got my first injection (Biontech),
modest reaction, no problems until yet.

lavalamp 2021-06-06 00:29

I finally got shanked with Pfizer on the 4th June, my second appointment is in 11 weeks on 20th August.

Uncwilly 2021-06-06 04:40

We have a time traveler again voting in the poll.

lavalamp 2021-06-06 21:49

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580107]We have a time traveler again voting in the poll.[/QUOTE]As a mod, can you not remove the vote and/or see who the scoundral was?

ldesnogu 2021-06-09 21:45

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580107]We have a time traveler again voting in the poll.[/QUOTE]
Might be me: I had missed the thread so I added April some days ago. i got my second pfizer dose on June 4th.

Uncwilly 2021-06-09 21:54

[QUOTE=ldesnogu;580483]Might be me: I had missed the thread so I added April some days ago. i got my second pfizer dose on June 4th.[/QUOTE]No, they were from the future.....

alpertron 2021-06-10 17:48

I've just received the first shot of Sputnik V. The second dose will be in September.

Uncwilly 2021-06-10 18:06

[QUOTE=alpertron;580585]I've just received the first shot of Sputnik V. The second dose will be in September.[/QUOTE]That is a long gap. Hopefully that can be accelerated. From what I have heard the benefits of protection from the more troublesome variants only real comes in after the 2nd dose (this was Pfizer specific), so the suggestion has been to short the time between doses than team BoJo was doing.

On a side note, in the city I reside there some good stats:
72% of all residents (12 y/o +) fully vaccinated
84% of all residents (12 y/o +) at least 1 dose

[CODE]Age % 1 dose or more
12-17 67.2
18-44 73.9
45-64 90.6
65+ 99.9[/CODE]

alpertron 2021-06-10 18:12

Unfortunately in Argentina we cannot receive vaccines from the USA. Pfizer is banned by law and Moderna and Johnson and Johnson are not approved by the government. So we can receive only Astra Zeneca and also Russian and Chinese vaccines.

The numbers for Buenos Aires City:

First dose: Healthcare people: 219,624, older than 60 years: 614,188, teachers, police and other strategic people: 95,536, people with health-related risks: 115,400, general population younger than 60 years (my case): 34,713

Second dose: Healthcare people: 148,306, older than 60 years: 123,178, teachers, police and other strategic people: 15,743, people with health-related risks: 0, general population younger than 60 years: 0

The popuiation in Buenos Aires city is 3 million.

Vaccines applied:

Sputnik V: First dose: 581,713, Second dose: 112,294
Covishield (Astra Zeneca): First dose: 343,863, Second dose: 53,256
Sinopharm: First dose: 128,837, Second dose: 121,078

Notice that none of these vaccines were tested on pregnant women, so they cannot get the vaccine.

Uncwilly 2021-06-10 18:19

[QUOTE=alpertron;580588]So we can receive only Astra Zeneca and also Russian and Chinese vaccines.[/QUOTE]The best vaccine is the one that you can get in you the soonest. I would have taken Vlad's impalement if that was all that was around. I hope that you can get your second dose sooner.

mart_r 2021-06-11 20:00

1[SUP]st[/SUP] shot BioNTech/Pfizer on Tuesday, with no side effects beside a very mild sting in the arm for some hours. (Yes, they took the needle out after the shot :smile:). The medical staff at our workplace distributed the shots, which is very convenient because I don't have to bother with getting appointments and don't have to take half a day off just to go to the doctor.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] shot due July 20[SUP]th[/SUP].

LaurV 2021-06-12 04:23

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580590] I would have taken Vlad's impalement if that was all that was around.[/QUOTE]
No, you wouldn't haha. Let him rest in peace.

Coming to the topic, here in Thai there is not much choice for us (farangs) either. Even less choices than Dario's and even those cost money. Lots. Me and swmbo decided to wait till it will become mandatory (like, international traveling, if we need to travel for work or to see relatives).

Uncwilly 2021-06-12 05:06

[QUOTE=LaurV;580748]No, you wouldn't haha. Let him rest in peace.[/QUOTE]Methinks you missed the joke. Vlad(imir Putin)'s impalement [jab] works better than none.

LaurV 2021-06-12 06:43

Haha, didn't know about that meaning :redface:

Dr Sardonicus 2021-06-12 15:55

I think this guy's yet-to-be-invented "universal vaccine" qualifies as "less effective."

[url=https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/03/26/geert-vanden-bossche/]Geert Vanden Bossche Stokes Fear of COVID-19 Vaccine To Promote His Own Flawed 'Solution'[/url][quote]On March 6, 2021, a Belgian veterinarian named Geert Vanden Bossche published an open letter "to all authorities, scientists and experts around the world" asserting that, in his expert analysis, the current global COVID-19 vaccination program will "wipe out large parts of our human population." The way to avoid this purported calamity, Vanden Bossche asserts, is for scientists to pay more attention to his own invention — a "universal vaccine" that uses the body's innate immune system to kill SARS-CoV-2.[/quote]As I understand it, the innate immune system can't be "trained" - it doesn't "remember" specific microbes or viruses.

The [i]adaptive[/i] immune system is what makes vaccines as effective as they are.

chalsall 2021-06-14 21:32

Got my second "jab" today.
 
So, WMBO and I received our second jab today. No negative effects (yet; let's observe what happens over the next 48 to 72 hours).

The process was relatively well managed. Everyone was placed in a large open seating area with chairs regularly sprayed with disinfectant and placed ~1.5m apart. ***EVERYONE*** was wearing a mask.

Unfortunately, they didn't instruct everyone to put their phones into "silent mode"... Ring tones including dogs barking, ducks quacking, popular songs (and at one point, a woman screaming), etc were enjoyed by all.

But that wasn't as bad as the young people I was originally seated beside. Their phones were radiating noise every 20 seconds or so; I assume because they had WhatsApp and/or FaceBook et al apps running, which were telling them that they (and everyone else around them) absolutely *had* to know that someone else was doing something "important" at that instance in time...

Still... Although I had to tolerate many other humans for two hours (I don't do humans in "meat space" well), I'm very thankful. 8-)

Edit_2: Someone ironically, I read [URL="https://slate.com/technology/2021/06/covid-vaccine-skepticism-how-to-address.html"]this article while waiting for my jab.[/URL] An interesting approach, which those mathematically inclined might enjoy.

Uncwilly 2021-06-14 21:54

[QUOTE=chalsall;580984]The process was relatively well managed. Everyone was placed in a large open seating area with chairs regularly sprayed with disinfectant and placed ~1.5m apart.[/QUOTE]Disinfecting chairs is hygiene kabuki. You don't get C19 (nor much else) through your backside, nor your back. Cleaning your hands on departure is enough. I am ok with it if it help people feel safe enough to come in and get the real protection.

chalsall 2021-06-14 22:12

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580987]Disinfecting chairs is hygiene kabuki. You don't get C19 (nor much else) through your backside, nor your back.[/QUOTE]

I hear you. Loud and clear.

But there are many who welcome the comfort that this "display" gives. To share, Linda insisted I change out of all my clothes upon our return, to undergo a "hot wash".

I've learnt to simply obey in situations like this. It's often easier than to explain (and then debate) the science (but only when the position errors on the side of caution)... 9-)

mart_r 2021-07-23 18:51

[QUOTE=mart_r;580707]2[SUP]nd[/SUP] shot due July 20[SUP]th[/SUP].[/QUOTE]

Arm was only mildly sore, as is common after other injections, but other than that, no distinctive side effects at all.

Uncwilly 2021-07-23 19:51

If the percentages on the poll, as stands, reflect the population as a whole, I would be much happier about the situation. As is, those nations that have the vax are not at these rates, nor are those that are 'have nots'. (Yes, I know that this does not count those that are delaying or hesitant (not those who are pro-COVID).

lavalamp 2021-07-23 22:03

The NHS UK have allowed me to rebook my 2nd jab for an earlier date, so now it will only be 8 weeks between jabs instead of the 11 it would have been before.

Xyzzy 2021-07-30 16:22

We haven't researched this idea fully yet, but if the data shows that a booster vaccination helps we might be tempted to get a "first" shot all over again. There are plenty of vaccinations available and not nearly enough people taking advantage of them so our action wouldn't deprive anyone. As for safety, there is a [URL="https://nypost.com/2021/05/11/nurse-accidentally-gives-patient-six-covid-vaccine-doses/"]documented case[/URL] of someone getting multiple shots at once by accident. But, like we mentioned, we need to do a bit more research.

mathwiz 2021-07-30 17:03

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;584420]We haven't researched this idea fully yet, but if the data shows that a booster vaccination helps we might be tempted to get a "first" shot all over again. There are plenty of vaccinations available and not nearly enough people taking advantage of them so our action wouldn't deprive anyone. As for safety, there is a [URL="https://nypost.com/2021/05/11/nurse-accidentally-gives-patient-six-covid-vaccine-doses/"]documented case[/URL] of someone getting multiple shots at once by accident. But, like we mentioned, we need to do a bit more research.[/QUOTE]

I've been wondering the same thing. I got my 2 doses of Moderna back in March+April. Could I get [URL="https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html"]dose #3 of Pfizer [/URL]now, or another Moderna? What would be the health risks or benefits, if any? (huge vaccine surplus leads me to think that's the only relevant question)

Batalov 2021-07-30 21:57

1 Attachment(s)
Russian entry (and [B]no[/B], this is not the dreaded Sputnik-V; this is CoviVac... or maybe "KoviVak" since this is Russian :rolleyes: )
[SPOILER]My sister got two of these.[/SPOILER]

LaurV 2021-08-02 10:42

[QUOTE=Batalov;584456]or maybe "KoviVak" [/QUOTE]
or maybe KOBI-BAK, or KOBU-BAK :razz:

Xyzzy 2021-08-04 17:04

[URL="https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/who-calls-for-global-moratorium-on-covid-boosters-until-end-of-september/"]WHO calls for global moratorium on COVID boosters until end of September[/URL]

:mike:

Uncwilly 2021-08-23 14:38

[URL="https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/08/23/1030251410/pfizer-covid-vaccine-fda-approval"]https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/08/23/1030251410/pfizer-covid-vaccine-fda-approval [/URL]
Hopefully people will take this as a sign to get the shot.

petrw1 2021-08-23 14:55

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;584821][URL="https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/who-calls-for-global-moratorium-on-covid-boosters-until-end-of-september/"]WHO calls for global moratorium on COVID boosters until end of September[/URL]

:mike:[/QUOTE]

Because of the countries that are not recognizing AstraZenaca or mixed doses my wife and I were both able to get a 3rd dose; the last 2 being Pfizer.

Batalov 2021-08-23 22:14

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;584821][URL="https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/who-calls-for-global-moratorium-on-covid-boosters-until-end-of-september/"]WHO calls for global moratorium on COVID boosters until end of September[/URL]

:mike:[/QUOTE]
The FDA [URL="https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/joint-statement-hhs-public-health-and-medical-experts-covid-19-booster-shots"]changed course[/URL] to some degree and now the official recommendation is a booster for folks in immunocompromised cohort after 8 months, and a few days later - the same for long-term care facilities and personnel.
And I will be getting my 3rd shot after Sep.20, per district plan. (as I work at a hospital)

pinhodecarlos 2021-08-24 08:01

My wife will get the third too.

firejuggler 2021-08-25 16:06

2 nd vax done, maybe a third in 6 month ( Pfizer both time, but i'm in europe)

alpertron 2021-08-29 23:20

Today my 18 year old son received his first dose of Sputnik vaccine.

MisterBitcoin 2021-09-05 17:58

I have got my 2nd shot about 1 month ago, i havent had any major side effects other then feeling very tired for a few days and pain at the injection point. I have got Comirnaty (Biontech / Pfizer).



My mother works in healthcare and might get her 3th shot at the end of the year, while i still think about if its realy worth it. I think it would make more sense to donate doses to nations that lack enough vaccines; to prevent yet another mutation similiar to Delta.

alpertron 2021-09-14 17:03

Today I received my second shot. This time was Moderna. On June 10th I received Sputnik.

chalsall 2021-09-24 21:27

So... An important person in my Universe (who I have not physically interacted with for more than sixteen years) tested positive, and has been hospitalized.

Those who care deeply about this individual don't terribly appreciate the "cold and analytical" statistics being brought forward.

~99.7% survivability is pretty good for those who rely on others to come to their rescue.

I'm very serious about my immediate above.

Uncwilly 2021-09-24 22:11

[QUOTE=chalsall;588629]~99.7% survivability is pretty good for those who rely on others to come to their rescue.[/QUOTE]If the elevator at your local shopping mall had that sort of survivability there would be a great hew and cry. If the crosswalk at the local school had those odds, the street would get shut down for an hour either side of school hours.

In the last month 3 family members of various distance of relations to me have had/have COVID. "B" is too young for the vaccination yet. "D" has immune system / medication issues that has impacted their ability to get vaccinated. "R" is a person over 75 that did get vaccinated. B and D reside together and most likely got it from D's ancestors (not related to me). R travelled with B & D to see family member Z and s/o K. D had the worst set of symptoms. R was able to stay out of the hospital/morgue because the vaccine prepared their immune system. They acknowledge that it saved them.

chalsall 2021-09-24 22:21

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;588632]If the elevator at your local shopping mall had that sort of survivability there would be a great hew and cry. If the crosswalk at the local school had those odds, the street would get shut down for an hour either side of school hours.[/QUOTE]

OK. I hear you. Loud and clear.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;588632]R was able to stay out of the hospital/morgue because the vaccine prepared their immune system. They acknowledge that it saved them.[/QUOTE]

Copy. I'm actually having to bring Alice and Bob into the thought experiment just to have a standardized framework for the discussions.

kriesel 2021-09-24 22:42

Hoping for a good outcome, Chris.

I recently heard from someone who I've not seen in person for over a year, that despite his wife's expressed concerns, he and the rest of the band got together to practice at someone's home. Well, all 5 instrumentalists and all 5 vocalists got CV19, most had recovered before I heard of it, and one was hospitalized and seems to be recovering also. He'd been vaccinated fully and IIRC the rest had too. He may never hear the end of it from his wife, was how he wrapped up that story. First one I've known personally. With all the variants turning up, and low global vaccination rate creating more, we're in for more of this for a while.

chalsall 2021-09-24 23:10

[QUOTE=kriesel;588635]Hoping for a good outcome, Chris.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

[QUOTE=kriesel;588635]With all the variants turning up, and low global vaccination rate creating more, we're in for more of this for a while.[/QUOTE]

Yup.

The saying "Maths are hard" being modeled upon girls pisses me off.

Most of the girls around me are far smarter than the boys. Funny how that works.

Nick 2021-09-25 07:45

[QUOTE=chalsall;588629]An important person in my Universe (who I have not physically interacted with for more than sixteen years) tested positive, and has been hospitalized.[/QUOTE]
We hope they are soon better again.
Several of our family members caught it before there was a vaccine, so here we both know the feeling.
Fortunately, they all recovered completely.

storm5510 2021-09-26 17:05

I'll just toss this into the mix. I had a scheduled appointment with my MD last week for a checkup. I asked him if booster shots will be required. His one-word answer, "Yes." I didn't inquire further as he moved on to other topics.

So, those of us willing get to do this again. Of course, this will give the non-believers and cry-babies something additional to crow about. The great :poop:-hole, a.k.a. Facebook is full of this now. I go there to keep in contact with relatives and past school-mates. It stays so busy that it is nearly always difficult to navigate.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-09-26 22:26

[QUOTE=storm5510;588752]I'll just toss this into the mix. I had a scheduled appointment with my MD last week for a checkup. I asked him if booster shots will be required. His one-word answer, "Yes." I didn't inquire further as he moved on to other topics.
<snip>[/QUOTE]I wonder of the person you asked heard "recommended" when you said "required." I imagine many doctors would [i]recommend[/i] a booster for vaccinated patients who are immunocompromised and possibly those over 65 years old.

AFAIK there isn't anyone - including medical practitioners - [i]requiring[/i] people to get a COVID booster shot.

I [i]have[/i] heard of a couple of doctors who have given patients a choice between getting vaccinated and finding another doctor.

The recent case of Qanon anti-vaxxer Veronica Wolski, who was hospitalized at Amita Resurrection Medical Center for treatment of COVID until she died of the disease, offers IMO a good argument for hospitals refusing to treat those who choose to remain unvaccinated for COVID.

Her co-conspiracists engaged in a campaign of harassment against the hospital and its staff in an effort to coerce them into treating her with ivermectin, contrary to hospital policy. When she died, attorney Lin Wood accused the hospital of "medical murder."

Hospitals and their staffs don't need mobs of yahoos dictating health care decisions to professionals who actually have licenses to practice medicine.

Batalov 2021-09-27 00:21

The CDC made a very poor job of communicating, Some even call it a PR disaster.

Even nurses and doctors at our hospital are all confused. While the booster was announced a month ago internally as nearly a done deal a month ago with only one deadline to pass before starting administering. We were even told - CDC cleared to do two shots in one visit seasonal flu and COV booster. Now all is unclear and surely not required. I already got my flu shot, no need to wait now for both.

The vaccination though [I]per se[/I] is now [B]mandated[/B]* for all healthcare workers (in our state) and the deadline is Sep 30. There is a special paperwork to make your case for exemption, and internal committee is now done reviewing them and appeals too. And then those who are granted exemption will follow some workflows for repositioning if they are in patient-contact roles. They cannot continue in patient-contact roles, by law; they will be given some other internal opportunities. And even then, non-vaccinated folks will continue to be tested twice a week.
The others will get a vaccine. Our baseline is not too bad even before mandate, >70%.
____

*Unlike Russia, where my sister is also a [I]real [/I]doctor, in the U.S. I rather can see certain logic in the mandate ruling because it happened only after the vaccines did become fully FDA-approved drugs. They are not given under EUA ("no one is experimenting on you"). Flu+DPT+more shots for example were mandated for decades (and not a surprise mandate - when you sign the contract, you see all those riders attached to it). You don't want flu shots every year? Don't take this job offer then.
I remember that I got a bunch of shots (many are only once 10 yrs by some list) right before I could then enter the job, plus TB, plus a drug test panel. That's another test that not every employer gives you :rolleyes:

LaurV 2021-09-27 04:04

Got my first shot of Pfizer on Sep 22, for free. Scheduled for second shot on Oct 14, for free too.

I could not escape, I was taken by force. :sirrobin:

The "for free" part is important, and not (see below).

I mean, in the last 6-8 months it was a total confusion and political masturbation here around. At first it was impossible for farangs living in Thai to get the vac, who cares about farangs? (I still remember their PM saying on TV two or three years ago that Thailand don't need farangs, haha, that was just before all the tourism died, mother karma is a bitch sometimes).

Then they said you can get the sino[vac|farm] for a (not cheap!) fee, but no farang appeared interested (sure! as I said, I would get the vaccine only if it becomes mandatory, for example to travel for job or to visit family and relatives, in Europe or Australia, but sino was not recognized there, so it was futile for me anyhow - as a parenthesis in another parenthesis, my boss with family, and some of my German colleagues went to Germany to get the vac, stayed there a while to get the second dose, came back, did quarantine 14 days at the seaside in Phuket or so, there is a special "income area" there, which wastes a lot of time and costs a bucket of money).

Then, the local powers-to-be said they will not bring other vaccine in Thai (of course, they wanted to get rid of the sino stocks, which they bought most probably not cheap! - good money for some local lords) and they started vaccinating local people with sino and astra, first by choice, then mandatory, because they wanted to get the people immune, to let them travel around, as the local tourism and industry in some areas are almost dead**, and people were starting gathering... then by choice again, because people (general, I don't mean Thai, that's the same everywhere in the world) are fucking difficult to satisfy, or to oblige to do anything, if it is mandatory they won't do it unless you force them with a stick...

**(you should see the newspapers and tv interviews with politicians, etc., making plans about how many farangs will get the vaccine, and how many "rich tourists" [U]they plan[/U] to get to Thailand, to take their money, sure, the rich farangs are stupid enough to come and spend their millions to [STRIKE]have good time[/STRIKE] mostly stay in quarantine in south, at the sea side, well, but still a prison, where you are tested 2 times a day and have to pay for the tests by yourself - think about it, you just spend your day in quarantined area, where nobody is infected, in theory, as everybody was tested and it is kept under supervision, but yet, you still have to be tested daily and pay by yourslef for the tests, well, they cost peanuts, but still... Boneheads, like Ellen would say).

As always in times of crisis and confusion, some entities/people try to exploit the credulity of other entities/people, the biggest local hospitals started to make "lists" with people, so you could get vaccinated with moderna or pfizer "when the vaccine will become available", charging from $20 to $100 or more to put you on such list. Which was a big bullshit and I did everything possible to stay apart (everything possible means mostly ignoring them, or laughing out loud when somebody told me about such a "new list" - hey guys, I come from a communist country, and went through a "revolution" already, and I also read Naomi Klein, hehe). Some of my colleagues and friends from outside the company didn't get their money back yet, and still waiting (or fighting) to get them back.

So, with much of the local people vaccinated, and many provinces free to travel, there are no tourists yet. People have no jobs, as many industries are closed, hotels are closed because they had no activity for such a long time, and the seasonal workers went home to their provinces, families, etc., and people are afraid to go around because you don't know if you will be able to come back, there may be a new "red area" tomorrow and you will be forced to stay there, etc.

And parents are on the streets too, asking for open face-to-face teaching, they are tired of distance learning, having the kids at home all the day, putting up with their moods, needs, etc. Maybe now they will appreciate more what the teachers are doing at school... Didn't I say that mother karma is a bitch?

So, let's vaccinate local farangs, then, they would travel and spend the millions... (no joke, official words!) but nobody seemed interested in sinovac. And you can't force farangs to take it, they will leave and get the shot they want, outside.

Whatever, at the end, with some donations from Pfizer, with also the contribution of few local consulates of foreign countries (UK, Swiss, etc) the local gods got their hands on few tens of thousands Pfizer vaccines, and decided to vaccinate the farangs. First for a large fee, then for a smaller fee, then for free but only for people over 60 and/or people with diseases (diabetes, etc), then for "fat people" (yep, the official formulation! are you fat? you can get vac for free!), then local newspapers found that the donated vaccines were in fact earmarked for doctors, nurses, etc, medical personal who works on first line of defense, and for teachers, to facilitate reopening face-to-face teaching, and there was like a lot of such vaccines coming, their number in the millions in the next months, and they were donated, i.e. you were not supposed to pay a fee to get one...

So, as they decided to vaccinate the teachers, swmbo got a "secret link" in her email, from the school, where she, as a teacher, could register to get a Pfizer for free. I won't talk about the stupidity of the situation, anyhow, this was beginning of September. She went through the process and get scheduled on 22, but never in that process was she asked about being a teacher, or had to fill anywhere in the form such info, the only required thing was the visa type ("working visa"), so she decided to fill the forms for me too, and guess what, I also got scheduled on the same date. I should have had to drive her anyhow, to there, wait for her to get the shot, drive her back, as the place is not near, and she is not driving. So, why not to spend the time more effective, by getting myself a shot?

Well, at least that was her motivation, and no matter how hard I tried, I could sneak out of it, she grabbed me on my collar, and there we are :ouch1:... We tried to get booked in the morning, there were four sessions at different times, but "there was no tickets left", so we got it scheduled in the afternoon (when there were another four sessions, at different times and they expected lots of people).

The week before the appointment we read on the official papers and they changed the requirements every day, or every two days.

First, it was "every farang over 50 can get the shot" for free. This was an improvement from the "over 60 only, or fat". :razz:

Second time, a day after, "everybody over 40 can get it, hurry up and book it! You don't need to be teacher, fat", etc.

Then, everybody can get it, but if you are not over 40, then you must have a work permit. Futile to say, the same link as swmbo got, was given each time, so everybody could see it. It didn't seem so "secret" anymore (I am still laughing thinking of the stupidity of the situation, what do you want to hide? What are you afraid off?).

Then, two days before the shot, we got an official email telling us that our appointment was scheduled for morning, as there will be no vaccination in the afternoon - not enough people.

We went there, they were very well organized (the "gathering" took place in a mall! not in a hospital! but Thais can be very efficient and very organized when they want to, this is a thing I always admired at them), we were done in about one hour, including the 20 minutes mandatory waiting after the shot (to check if you don't have any unwanted aftereffects). We counted about 200 people and estimate they were about 500 for all the fuss. There was no other date when the farangs were vaccinated with Pfizer in Chiang Mai. To our knowledge, there are many thousands of farangs living here.

Whatever... If I am still posting here, it means I didn't die, unless my ghost is the one posting. I didn't feel anything during the "stinging" process, the lady-nurse knew her trade very well, and she had a very light hand. Then I had a bit of muscular pain which started after about one hour or two, and got stronger and stronger in time, from "I don't care" to "it bothers me when I lift the arm" (like when you do some effort after a period of inactivity and you develop some muscular pain due to the lactic acid accumulating in your muscles, more a nuisance than a pain), with a peak at about 8 to 10 hours after the shot, then it receded and there was no symptom left of it after about 36 hours from the shot. It was the same for the wife.

Now, I still have a big dilemma, should I continue to talk, or should I not talk anymore with you, not-vaccinated people? :razz:

(we have this joke about two gypsy friends, they were best friends for many years, when they heard that if you swim across the Danube river during the Christmas Eve, you become white; so as they were pissed of being gypsies, they decided to try it, the water was freezing, but they swam, and swam, and swam, at last one of them reached the other side, while the other was still struggling to grab the shore, almost drowning, asked for help "give me a hand, I am sinking", the first replied "I don't talk to gypsies, I am white" :razz:)

We kind of expected the evolution of the facts to be like that, the factories, once the carousel started, produce now millions of vaccines per day, and that will be the biz of the future. You have a virus that doesn't give immunity, so you will need periodic boosts, every year, or every 6 months, you may guess that now the "economics", not the science, dictate the future actions.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-09-27 04:20

There was an NPR interview on the 17[sup]th[/sup] of September that really got my attention: [url=https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038180233/after-examining-the-data-an-infectious-disease-expert-weighs-in-on-booster-shots]After Examining The Data, An Infectious Disease Expert Weighs In On Booster Shots[/url][quote]NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at NYU and an ex-adviser to the Biden administration, about whether she believes COVID-19 booster shots are necessary.
<snip>
KING: Is there any evidence that boosters can better protect vaccinated people from getting mild infections? Or are people who would get the booster going to get sick the way they did - they do with the vaccine, just not as severely as they would?

GOUNDER: I think it's really important that we reset expectations about what vaccines can or can't do. So if you give an additional dose of vaccine now, it would be normal for your antibody levels to spike but then to drop again. And so you could find yourself in a situation where you keep boosting and boosting and boosting just to prevent those milder breakthrough infections. And, in fact, Israel currently is looking at giving now fourth doses of COVID vaccine. And I just don't...

KING: Really?

GOUNDER: ...Think that's where we want to be going.

KING: OK. That's interesting - fourth doses. Does all of the debate around boosters and what I think you could legitimately call confusion in this country - does it worry you at all?

GOUNDER: Well, it does worry me in the sense that we haven't been very clear with the public about, what are we talking about when we talk about vaccine effectiveness? What are we actually trying to prevent? What is realistic given the vaccines that we have? And what's the end game here?

KING: Let me ask you about effectiveness 'cause I keep seeing this places, and I keep hearing people who are not experts make arguments based on this fact. So the CDC finds that the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines to stop a symptomatic infection has dropped just a little bit, from more than 90% effective to 80% effective. And you hear people saying, oh, my gosh; OK, this is a sign that we need to get everyone a booster. You take a look at that fact and you think what exactly?

GOUNDER: That's actually normal.

KING: OK.

GOUNDER: If your antibody levels didn't drop after every infection or vaccination, your blood would literally turn into a sludge of antibodies to all the infections and vaccinations you got over a lifetime. And so simultaneously to making antibodies, your immune system is also forming memories of that infection or vaccination in the form of memory cells. And those are poised to protect you against the virus later on. There's some time it takes for those to kick in. So you will have a breakthrough infection. But they protect you against severe disease, hospitalization and death.[/quote]

storm5510 2021-09-27 15:15

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;588777]I wonder of the person you asked heard "recommended" when you said "required." I imagine many doctors would [I]recommend[/I] a booster for vaccinated patients who are immunocompromised and possibly those over 65 years old...[/QUOTE]

I don't remember exactly how I phrased my question. I was probably more like, "Will booster shots be needed?" His reply was probably a reflection of my age. 66 in 9 days. I've not heard anything about a timeline. I will just wait until I am contacted like I was before.

Batalov 2021-09-27 16:52

For the group 65+, the results are proven to be very beneficial; and it is approved by FDA and CDC. Not mandatory.
At our place, you could get the third shot for a week now, anytime - starting from Sep.20.

storm5510 2021-09-28 18:21

[QUOTE=Batalov;588850]For the group 65+, the results are proven to be very beneficial; and it is approved by FDA and CDC. Not mandatory.
At our place, you could get the third shot for a week now, anytime - starting from Sep.20.[/QUOTE]

My original two shots were Moderna and I had no side effects either time. If I go to the same location for the booster, hopefully it will also be Moderna.

My next scheduled appointment is December 15. About that time last year, I was given flu and pneumonia shots. I hope this will be repeated.

chris2be8 2021-09-29 16:01

I've seen it suggested that vaccination with different types vaccine may produce a better response. But don't take that as gospel. And I'd prefer a booster shot adjusted to match the delta variant.

Uncwilly 2021-09-29 17:05

[QUOTE=chris2be8;589000]And I'd prefer a booster shot adjusted to match the delta variant.[/QUOTE]That is what Moderna has brewed up.

ATH 2021-09-29 17:10

In Denmark they are offering 3rd booster shot to those with extra health conditions and to health care workers, and they announced it will be offered to everyone 65+, but there is no timeline for that yet.

Edit:
We are at 76.12% with at least 1 shot and 74.63% with both. But those percentages are out of the total population, and that first number have not moved much for 1-2 months, so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-09-30 12:53

[QUOTE=ATH;589012]In Denmark they are offering 3rd booster shot to those with extra health conditions and to health care workers, and they announced it will be offered to everyone 65+, but there is no timeline for that yet.

Edit:
We are at 76.12% with at least 1 shot and 74.63% with both. But those percentages are out of the total population, and that first number have not moved much for 1-2 months, so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.[/QUOTE]Yes, a bit annoying, but unfortunately vaccine-ineligible can get the virus.

But let's see here. Percent ineligible (12 years of age or younger) is probably around 15%. Percent of total population unvaccinated is 100 - 76.12 = 23.88%. That would be 23.88% - 15% = 8.88% of the entire population being eligible and unvaccinated, so (8.88%)x100/(100 - 15) = 10.45% of the eligible population is unvaccinated, so 89.55% of those eligible have had at least one shot. Similarly, 87.76% of those eligible are fully vaccinated. (I know, carrying 4 sig figs is unwarranted since my guess of 15% could easily have a relative error of 7%, but I am confident the answers I got are fairly close to right.)

Those commendably high vaccination rates are, I am sure, making a huge difference.

Here in the US, only about 61% of the population has had at least one shot and only about 55% is fully vaccinated. In some States, the rates are much lower, and in some of those, hospitals are on "crisis standards of care" and in some areas the morgues are overflowing because of COVID. I am sure all that would have been prevented if we'd achieved vaccination rates anywhere close to what Denmark has.

"Annoyed" doesn't even [i]begin[/i] to cover how I feel about that.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Thanks to [b][color=red]Uncwilly[/color][/b] we know my 15% guess was wrong, the actual figure is 12.73%. Replacing 15% by 12.73% in the formulas reduces the 89.55% figure to a mere 87.22%, and the 87.76% to a mere 85.52%.

No figures for medical or other deferments in age-eligible. Perhaps they'd bring the ineligible back up to 15% :grin:

Uncwilly 2021-09-30 13:56

[QUOTE=ATH;589012]so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;589064] Percent ineligible (12 years of age or younger) is probably around 15%. [/QUOTE]
According to Denmark's national statistics office. 12.73% of the population (as of Jan 2021) were 0-11 years old (under 12). Some folks might be medically deferred. That number is quite a bit harder to find.
The table at [URL="https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state"]https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state [/URL]
has a footnote that includes: [C]Children under 18 represent 24% of the total U.S. population and can catch and spread the virus.[/C]

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-03 14:37

I went to get my flu shot yesterday. I asked about a COVID booster. They had it, and it's available on a walk-in basis, as long is you got vaccinated at least 6 months ago. You can even get the booster at the same time as you get a flu shot.

That is, [i]provided[/i] you got the [i]Pfizer[/i] 2-dose primary vaccine (which now has full FDA approval for use in people at least 12 years of age). The FDA granted Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for a booster shot of the Pfizer vaccine, which if I understand correctly is the same as one dose of the 2-dose Pfizer primary vaccine.

But I got the Moderna 2-dose vaccine. There's no data on whether "mixing and matching" primary vaccines and boosters is safe or effective, so that's not approved. I will have to wait until a Moderna booster gets authorization. Apparently there are alternative versions in the works. One is, one dose of the 2-dose primary vaccine. Another is half a dose. Another is half a dose of a version aimed more specifically at the delta variant.

Xyzzy 2021-10-05 11:58

We got a third COVID shot and a flu shot yesterday.

:mike:

pinhodecarlos 2021-10-05 13:10

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;589522]We got a third COVID shot and a flu shot yesterday.

:mike:[/QUOTE]

Not as a cocktail though (both on the same shot, think I read something about it).

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-05 13:43

[QUOTE=pinhodecarlos;589528]Not as a cocktail though (both on the same shot, think I read something about it).[/QUOTE]That is correct. No "mixing and matching" between primary vaccines and boosters in the US. I've read the Moderna booster is authorized, but only for people with compromised immune systems (transplant recipients, people undergoing cancer treatment). The Pfizer vaccine has EUA, but you can't get it unless you had the Pfizer primary vaccine.

J&J just applied for EUA for its booster. The FDA will meet next week to consider whether to give EUA for the Moderna and J&J boosters.

axn 2021-10-05 13:53

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;589531]That is correct. No "mixing and matching" [/QUOTE]
I think he meant combining COVID + flu vaccines into a single "cocktail".

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-05 14:00

[QUOTE=axn;589534]I think he meant combining COVID + flu vaccines into a single "cocktail".[/QUOTE]You're probably right, and that's also true. COVID vaccines and flu vaccines are separate jabs. My pea brain just never grasped the idea that they might be combined.

pinhodecarlos 2021-10-05 18:12

Here on brexit island they were thinking on a merged combined one (same shot) but…

Batalov 2021-10-06 01:24

The boring part about clinical process is that even if you take two approved drugs and put them together - you would need a new clinical trial. But they definitely plan that to be a mainstream in a couple years.

Or, if a company for example decides to take a pill drug and convert it to a powdered equivalent .... you guessed it -they will have to do another clinical trial.

...but yes, doing two shots (usually in two different arms) - this is already active. One of our friends is eligible so they got both at once (two different arms).

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-06 01:34

[QUOTE=pinhodecarlos;589552]Here on brexit island they were thinking on a merged combined one (same shot) but…[/QUOTE]It seems that Moderna and Novavax are working on combination flu shot/COVID boosters.

storm5510 2021-10-17 17:49

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;589531]...I've read the Moderna booster is authorized, but only for people with compromised immune systems (transplant recipients, people undergoing cancer treatment)...[/QUOTE]

If I read correctly, this should be expanded to say, "and anyone age 65 or over." My first two shots were Moderna and I had no side effects. If offered anything different as a booster, I will refuse.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-18 15:20

[QUOTE=storm5510;590868]If I read correctly, this should be expanded to say, "and anyone age 65 or over." My first two shots were Moderna and I had no side effects. If offered anything different as a booster, I will refuse.[/QUOTE]The FDA advisory panel has unanimously recommended approval of EUA for the Moderna booster for over-65 and other "vulnerable" groups who got the Moderna vaccine. It seems they also recommended EUA for anyone who got the J&J to get a second shot of J&J.

There is no approval for any "mix and match" booster shots, at least not yet. There's no data yet. Nobody should be offering a booster for a different vaccine than the one you got, at least for the time being.

[b]EDIT[/b] Update:

[url=https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-4e59c84da515da1b2977e6064512f158]US expected to authorize mix-and-match COVID booster shots[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal regulators are expected to authorize the mixing and matching of COVID-19 booster shots this week in an effort to provide flexibility for those seeking to maintain protection against the coronavirus.

The upcoming announcement by the Food and Drug Administration is likely to come along with authorization for boosters of the Moderna and Johnson & Johnson shots and follows the authorization of a third dose for the Pfizer vaccine for many Americans last month. The move was previewed Tuesday by a U.S. health official familiar with the matter who was not authorized to speak publicly ahead of the announcement.[/quote]

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-21 15:26

[url=https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-takes-additional-actions-use-booster-dose-covid-19-vaccines]Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Takes Additional Actions on the Use of a Booster Dose for COVID-19 Vaccines[/url]

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration took action to expand the use of a booster dose for COVID-19 vaccines in eligible populations. The agency is amending the emergency use authorizations (EUA) for COVID-19 vaccines to allow for the use of a single booster dose as follows:
[list]The use of a single booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine that may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals:[list]65 years of age and older[*]18 through 64 years of age at high risk of severe COVID-19[*]18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2[/list][*]The use of a single booster dose of the Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 2 months after completion of the single-dose primary regimen to individuals 18 years of age and older.[*]The use of each of the available COVID-19 vaccines as a heterologous (or "mix and match") booster dose in eligible individuals following completion of primary vaccination with a different available COVID-19 vaccine.[*]To clarify that a single booster dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals 18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2.[/list]


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