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-   -   Terrorists, funsters and all the other nice people (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=20660)

firejuggler 2015-11-14 16:07

Terrorists, funsters and all the other nice people
 
As you may know, on friday the 13th , Paris (France, not the one in Texas) has endured multiple terrorist attack.
Here is a link to have a summary of the events.
[url]http://www.lemonde.fr/attaques-a-paris/article/2015/11/14/what-you-need-to-know-about-paris-attacks-and-the-situation-in-france_4810074_4809495.html[/url]

Those kind of people send me in fit of rage. this is why I won"t comment further than this.

ewmayer 2015-11-14 22:37

Nasty bit of business, no doubt. But one cannot look at these atrocities in a vacuum - virtually unmentioned in the western MSM the past few years is France's 'interventionist foreign' policy role in the ME, especially in helping the US turn Libya into a civil-war-wracked failed state. A hell of a lot more than 150 innocents died as a result of that 'spreading of our values' effort. Is shooting noncombatants full of holes and blowing them to pink mist only 'terrorism' if they are citizens of wealthy nations and/or white? How many countries have the US and its allies terrorized over the past 25 years? And let us not forget that nasty outfits like IS were a direct result of the US blowing the shit out of Iraq over multiple wars, favoring one religious faction there and letting them freely terrorize the other, and actively abetting and arming various supposedly 'moderate' Sunni militant groups of the Al Qaeda stripe because they were deemed 'useful' in the ongoing efforts to create more failed states in the ME. Reap the whirlwind.

"Terrorism of the rich is called 'war', and war of the poor is called 'terrorism'." -- Peter Ustinov

-------------------------------------

[i]Edit:[/i] Econo-blooger Mike Shedlock (whose economic views have diverged from mine over the years but whose foreign-policy takes I still tend to agree with) has a [url=http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/11/isis-claims-responsibility-france-vows.html]decent set of links[/url] as well as his take:
[quote][b]Placing the Blame[/b]

1. US meddling in the Mideast, especially the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, directly led to the creation of ISIS.

2. US Drone policy by Bush, then greatly expanded by President Obama made more terrorists than it has killed. Thousands of innocent victims were killed or injured for every terrorist takeout.

3. The US backed so-called Al Qaeda "moderates" attempting to overthrow Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. In the civil war, millions of Syrians fled to Turkey.

4. Chancellor Merkel welcomed those Syrians with arms, giving them free money at first, then vouchers for free food and shelter. Millions of refugees passed from Turkey through Greece and the Balkan states for those handouts.

5. ISIS claimed in advance they would use Syrian passports to infiltrate Europe, yet nothing was done by Merkel. One of the attackers did have a Syrian passport. The threat was not idle, but was [url=http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/11/schauble-accuses-merkel-of-careless.html]"recklessly ignored"[/url] as I warned just one day before the attack.

6. In October, I noted former UK prime minister Tony Blair (who joined president Bush on the inane takeout of Saddam Hussein), [url=http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/10/migrant-scramble-on-as-winter.html]Apologizes for Creation of ISIS[/url].

So yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, starting with inept foreign policy by the US and UK, then Germany and Sweden.

[b]Repercussions[/b]

Financial Times writer Gideon Rachman missed the boat on the major consequences.

Expect a major loss of freedom in the US with more wiretapping and spying on citizens.

Yet, note how useless all that spying has been. The NSA and similar organizations in Europe did not have a hint of this attack, the Charlie Hebdo attack, or countless other minor shooting globally.

And of course the US warmongers will use this as reason to halt the treaty with Iran even though ISIS is a Sunni extremist group backed by Saudi Arabia.

The really radical US nutcases will seek a war with Iran.[/quote]

fivemack 2015-11-14 23:47

I do find this kind of distorted argument as to why some particular horrible event supports some loud-mouthed journalist's personal bugbears decidedly annoying.

Conflating all Syrian opposition to Assad with al-Qaeda seems the sort of political mistake that would only be made by someone incapable of getting over the naive belief that a war has two sides.

kladner 2015-11-15 05:50

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson"]Chalmers Johnson[/URL]

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson#The_Blowback_series"]The Blowback Series[/URL]

"Blowback" is sometimes described as "The Law of Unintended Consequences." I have the horrible feeling that perhaps some of these consequences [U]are[/U] intended by the evil people like the Dulles brothers, Kermit Roosevelt, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the whole Neocon Cabal who set a great deal of this horror in motion. This would fit with the Repercussions section of Shedlock's list.

kladner 2015-11-15 09:00

Just to be clear, I am horrified and appalled by ALL acts of violence by whatever actors. One still must ask how these things come to be.

only_human 2015-11-15 09:38

[QUOTE=kladner;416239][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson"]Chalmers Johnson[/URL]

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson#The_Blowback_series"]The Blowback Series[/URL]

"Blowback" is sometimes described as "The Law of Unintended Consequences." I have the horrible feeling that perhaps some of these consequences [U]are[/U] intended by the evil people like the Dulles brothers, Kermit Roosevelt, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the whole Neocon Cabal who set a great deal of this horror in motion. This would fit with the Repercussions section of Shedlock's list.[/QUOTE]
This idea that horrible policies get rammed through after disasters has been influential to my thinking: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein#The_Shock_Doctrine"]Naomi Klein: #The Shock Doctrine[/URL]

:ross: ������

tha 2015-11-15 10:03

[QUOTE=ewmayer;416219]Nasty bit of business, no doubt. But one cannot look at these atrocities in a vacuum...:[/QUOTE]

Uhm, yes. But I would follow a very different path in doing the blame game. The troubles in Iraq did not start when G.W. Bush invaded Iraq lead by a peace loving Saddam Hussein and split up the country in a Shi'ite and a Sunni part. Troubles started when Iran invaded Iraq and were able to prevent a build up of anything resembling a country with internal freedom. About 50.000 Iranian forces followed the US forces by about 48 hours and imposed their will upon the local population.

Islamic State came into existence long after Barack Obama had taken office and had implemented his policies which failed dramatically in about each and every country, e.g. Turkey, Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Israel, Syria, Libya. When the Sunni people and leaders of Iraq figured out they would be governed by the ayatollahs in Teheran and the US and Europe were happy to leave it that way and would be happy to grant Teheran with pretty much total control over the entire Middle-East, they formed IS and decided to confront this Teheran-Washington DC axis.

Take a look back at WW2. The popular view is that we allies won against Nazi Germany. A better view in my opinion would be that Stalin won the three party war, Hitler lost, and the West had to put up with a Cold War that lasted 40 years and resulted in dozens of local hot wars in which millions of people died.

We can only get the Middle East to a functional region if we confront both the ayatollahs in Teheran AND Islamic State.

chalsall 2015-11-15 15:35

[QUOTE=tha;416254]We can only get the Middle East to a functional region if we confront both the ayatollahs in Teheran AND Islamic State.[/QUOTE]

With the deepest of respect, "confront" is quite different than "engage".

If I May, many of my very best friends are Muslim. Several other very good friends are Christians, Atheists and Agnostics et al.

I would trust my life to any of them without a millisecond's thought.

The sad part is that religion is being used to divide.

IMO, for profit....

kladner 2015-11-15 17:58

[QUOTE=only_human;416252]This idea that horrible policies get rammed through after disasters has been influential to my thinking: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein#The_Shock_Doctrine"]Naomi Klein: #The Shock Doctrine[/URL]

:ross: ������[/QUOTE]
I never made it through Shock Doctrine. It made too much awful sense.

LaurV 2015-11-16 04:49

[QUOTE=chalsall;416262]
If I May, many of my very best friends are Muslim. Several other very good friends are Christians, Atheists and Agnostics et al.
I would trust my life to any of them without a millisecond's thought.
The sad part is that religion is being used to divide.
IMO, for profit....[/QUOTE]
Totally agree here.
Some of my best friends are Christians, some Buddhist, many Atheist/Agnostics.
I have Muslim and Hindu colleagues at work. There is nothing bad with them or with their beliefs.
Some are better persons than myself.

kladner 2015-11-16 05:04

[QUOTE]Paris (France, not the one in Texas)[/QUOTE]

[SNARK]In Paris, TX, half of the casualties would have been from the locals wildly firing their own assault weapons, and hitting who knows who.[/SNARK]

tha 2015-11-16 13:08

[QUOTE=chalsall;416262]With the deepest of respect, "confront" is quite different than "engage".

If I May, many of my very best friends are Muslim. Several other very good friends are Christians, Atheists and Agnostics et al.

I would trust my life to any of them without a millisecond's thought.

The sad part is that religion is being used to divide.

IMO, for profit....[/QUOTE]

The people in the Middle-East fight each other for the same reason why the people fought each other in Europe when WWI and WWII were raging, lack of and skewed distribution of resources among the population. Religion or political ideology like nationalism or antisemitism is only an instrument to get the little people marching.

Yes, I have muslim friends, christian friends, and the lot as well. The thing that worries me is that the explosions that took place in my vicinity and were aimed at random civilians were perpetrated by the same people that use religion to make their case. So, I feel safer if those who oppress the people in Iran are engaged is such a way that they will be removed from power, so that the billions that are being spend on terror in foreign countries dries up as well.

chalsall 2015-11-16 17:46

[QUOTE=tha;416304]The people in the Middle-East fight each other for the same reason why the people fought each other in Europe when WWI and WWII were raging, lack of and skewed distribution of resources among the population. Religion or political ideology like nationalism or antisemitism is only an instrument to get the little people marching.[/QUOTE]

Generally agree. But, not only in the Middle-East...

Heck, look at the division in the United States of America between Whites and "Colored". What is the ratio of the prison population again?

[QUOTE=tha;416304]So, I feel safer if those who oppress the people in Iran are engaged is such a way that they will be removed from power, so that the billions that are being spend on terror in foreign countries dries up as well.[/QUOTE]

I'm probably being naive, but my position is each country is (by definition) sovereign.

Block the borders? Fine.

Refuse trade? Fine.

Lock extra-national assets? Fine.

Attack in the hope of regime change? (Heuristically) Stupid.

tha 2015-11-16 19:37

[QUOTE=chalsall;416331]Generally agree. But, not only in the Middle-East...

Heck, look at the division in the United States of America between Whites and "Colored". What is the ratio of the prison population again?



I'm probably being naive, but my position is each country is (by definition) sovereign.

Block the borders? Fine.

Refuse trade? Fine.

Lock extra-national assets? Fine.

Attack in the hope of regime change? (Heuristically) Stupid.[/QUOTE]

As my grand parents spent most of the 5 years prior to WWII calling for regime change in neighboring Germany, I do not feel uncomfortable with the costs associated with such a war effort, neither do I feel uncomfortable with being part of a minority group of people calling for action. Also, I am certain of the world order restoring to desired governing, it is just bad to realize that we first try every way to avoid the unavoidable and hence let the problem grow before tackling.

chalsall 2015-11-16 20:32

[QUOTE=tha;416340]As my grand parents spent most of the 5 years prior to WWII calling for regime change in neighboring Germany, I do not feel uncomfortable with the costs associated with such a war effort, neither do I feel uncomfortable with being part of a minority group of people calling for action. Also, I am certain of the world order restoring to desired governing, it is just bad to realize that we first try every way to avoid the unavoidable and hence let the problem grow before tackling.[/QUOTE]

If I may share...

One of my grandfathers died in WWI at the front.

My Father (Michael) and his twin brother (Tony) volunteered to be fighter pilots during WWII.

My step father (John) was an engineer "on the ground" at D-Day.

kladner 2015-11-17 17:46

1 Attachment(s)
Tom Tomorrow nails it, again.

only_human 2015-11-17 19:19

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/charlie-hebdo-paris-attacks-cover_564b4140e4b08cda348a7f23[/url]
[QUOTE]Charlie Hebdo's Cover Doesn't Mince Words In Response To Paris Attack
"They have weapons. F**k them, we have Champagne!"[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/john-oliver-on-paris-terrorists-f--k-these-assholes-20151116"]John Oliver on Paris Terrorists: 'F--k These [/URL] ...(NSFW language)
[QUOTE]Oliver then rattled off all the many reasons why a terrorist group raging a cultural war against France can never win: Edith Piaf, Marcel Proust, fine wine and the monolithic pastry dish known as the croquembouche, "a French Freedom Tower." "To the people of France, our thoughts are with you," Oliver said before formally launching into Last Week Tonight's regularly scheduled segments.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquembouche[/url]
[QUOTE] croquembouche or croque-en-bouche is a French dessert consisting of choux pastry balls piled into a cone and bound with threads of caramel. In Italy and France, it is often served at weddings, baptisms, and first communions.

The name comes from the French phrase croque en bouche, meaning "[something that] crunches in the mouth."[/QUOTE]

chappy 2015-11-17 20:01

1 Attachment(s)
Mildly crude, but related and we are in the soapbox safety after all.

xilman 2015-11-17 21:28

[QUOTE=chappy;416438]Mildly crude, but related and we are in the soapbox safety after all.[/QUOTE] C|N>K

That seems to have been deleted so I retweeted.

ewmayer 2015-11-17 22:22

[QUOTE=only_human;416434][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquembouche[/url][/QUOTE]

Do those come with a free side order of national-flag-colored pom-poms?

----------------------------

[url=www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/how-belgium-became-breeding-ground-international-terrorists]How Belgium became a breeding ground for international terrorists[/url] | The Guardian

Note both Tunisia (source of many or most Belgian muslims) and Algeria (whence most French muslims) are former French colonies. Unclear to me if French colonial rule in Tunisia was as brutal as it was in Algeria.

only_human 2015-11-17 22:31

[QUOTE=ewmayer;416454]Do those come with a free side order of national-flag-colored pom-poms?

----------------------------

[url=www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/how-belgium-became-breeding-ground-international-terrorists]How Belgium became a breeding ground for international terrorists[/url] | The Guardian

Note both Tunisia (source of many or most Belgian muslims) and Algeria (whence most French muslims) are former French colonies. Unclear to me if French colonial rule in Tunisia was as brutal as it was in Algeria.[/QUOTE]
This tangentially relates to both remarks. I found a fairly long cut so as to also include Claude Rains' great line.
[url]http://youtu.be/KTsg9i6lvqU[/url]
[YOUTUBE]KTsg9i6lvqU[/YOUTUBE]

kladner 2015-11-17 22:44

Great scene!

[QUOTE]Note both Tunisia (source of many or most Belgian muslims) and Algeria (whence most French muslims) are former French colonies. Unclear to me if French colonial rule in Tunisia was as brutal as it was in Algeria.[/QUOTE]

I fear that we will be seeing fallout which involves the period of rampant colonialism for a long time to come. Just the national borders in the ME are courtesy of the colonial powers, and the causes of conflicts (see [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan"]Kurdistan[/URL]).

ewmayer 2015-11-17 23:03

Good discussion of the MSM collective flag-waving orgasm on NC today - I liked what reader 'vidimi' [url=http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/11/links-111715.html#comment-2514920]said[/url]:
[quote]Only countries that have played no role in f**king syria up should have a right to deny their refugees. Neither France nor America is one of those.

The thing that depresses me the most in this tragedy, after the 130+ lives senselessly lost, is how the narrative is about them hating us for our wine, our baguettes and our camemberts, as exemplified by that vapid John Oliver video circling the web, and the fact that Islam is once again on trial, despite the fact that France has been bombing one side or the other in Syria since 2012 and the attackers having claimed that it was in retaliation for French actions in Syria. But people hear what they want to hear. Instead of this being recognised as a predictable act of asymmetrical warfare – blowback – it’s treated as a shock attack on French values by muslims. Islam surely gave the attackers the resolve to go through with it, but this never was about muslims hating French lay values, except perhaps that might makes right.[/quote]

only_human 2015-11-17 23:12

Too far off track to drag in here, but the history of the Philippines springs to my mind as a long, brutal and bloody series of imperial, colonial, economic, strategic and purportedly religiously motivated series of occupations.

only_human 2015-11-18 05:21

[URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/gunfire-paris-suburb-police-raid-targeted-stadium-article-1.2438598"]Exchange of gunfire in Paris suburb is police raid near targeted soccer stadium[/URL]
[QUOTE]A hail of automatic gunfire near the Stade de France in Paris is an ongoing police operation related to last week’s terrorist attacks, according to reports.

The sporadic exchange of heavy gunshots began at around 4 a.m. local time in the Saint-Denis neighborhood and lasted for about an hour in intervals, witnesses near the raid have said.

Police reinforcements arrived shortly after BFM-TV reported that an unknown number of police officers were shot and wounded in the raid.[/QUOTE]

xilman 2015-11-18 18:04

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34859604"]Obama says US governors' refusal of refugees 'hysterical'[/URL]
To be fair, some of the UK people [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34855250"]are having second thoughts[/URL] --- read some way down into that article which is rather more up-beat than the corresponding one I read a couple of days ago.

ewmayer 2015-11-20 04:59

Great 10-minute video installment from RT News on the larger geopolitical game being played, using 'engineered mass migrations' as a strategic destabilization tool:

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7GAbVhjTSw]Political author Gearoid O Colmain discusses the Paris attacks with RT International[/url]

ewmayer 2015-11-21 01:07

In the latest global-war-on-terra incident, saw a news blurb this morning to the effect that "In the past hour several video clips have emerged from Mali, showing the tense situation where an estimated 10 gunmen, according to AFP, have taken dozen of hostages and where Mali, French and US special forces are now engaging the hostage takers."

The part of that which I found especially interesting - what are French and US special forces up to there such that they just fortuitously "happen to be nearby" when the hostage-taking occurred? Well, as has been widely reported - mostly outside the official state media (a.k.a. MSM) - the US (along with various of its lapdogs, erm I mean 'allies') has special forces operating in over 100 countries, so it would be more surprising to *not* have them around when bad shit, much of it 'imperialist-operations blowback' goes down:

[url]https://theintercept.com/2015/11/20/in-mali-and-rest-of-africa-the-u-s-military-fights-a-hidden-war/[/url]
[quote]A continent relatively free of transnational terror threats in 2001 is — after almost 14 years of U.S. military efforts — now rife with them, in the Pentagon’s view. Bolduc said the African continent is “as lethal and dangerous an environment as anywhere else in the world,” and specifically invoked ISIS, which he called “a transnational threat, a transregional threat, as are all threats that we deal with in Africa.” But the Pentagon would not specify whether the threat levels are stable, increasing, or decreasing. “I can’t get into any details regarding threats or future operations,” Lt. Col. Baldanza stated. “I can say that we will continue to work with our African partners to enable them in their counter-terrorism efforts as they further grow security and stability in the region.”[/quote]
And a good reader comment:
[i]
After the infamous “Blackhawk Down” episode in Somalia, and subsequent retreat from military actions (i.e., “boots on the ground”) in and around The Horn, the Americans have since doubled down and extended their writ continent-wide. And, with destruction of Muslim states such as Libya, Iraq, and Syria by “Western” military intervention, the US has virtually guaranteed a constant stream of “jihadis” and “terrorists” flowing into African countries with sizeable Muslim populations, creating yet another “opportunity” – more like make-work – for further entrenching and embedding of its counter-terrorism operatives and ramped-up drone activity. First, create the problem, then bring “solutions” that only expand the original problem, and cycle through repeatedly the same formula. What’s not to like if you’re a military planner and strategist? Huge job opportunities await.[/i]

And related, a worthy weekend read - my 'weekend reading' appellation includes time to peruse the comments, many of which (e.g. the one on the Sunni/Shia schism by 'Paper Mac' and the one on the Battle of Chalons) are very good, while the counterfactual/inane ones get swiftly called out:

[url=www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/11/john-helmer-the-barbarians-at-the-gate-of-civilization-but-which-empire-is-falling.html]John Helmer: The Barbarians at the Gate of Civilization, but Which Empire is Falling?[/url] | naked capitalism
[quote]What is missing from [Niall] Ferguson’s version [of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire] are two large pieces of evidence, one ancient, one contemporary. The first is that in purporting to explain why Rome fell to the barbarians, Ferguson omits to explain why Constantinople succeeded in defeating them. The history of the Byzantine empire is an 1,100-year success story – more than double the length of the Roman empire or the British empire; the longest-running empire in civilized history as Harvard University knows it. And the Byzantine trick had next to nothing to do with Christianity, Islamophobia, sexual continence, or heavy military spending. It had everything to with disbelief in the doctrine of manifest destiny.*

The second piece of evidence missing from Ferguson’s version of history is the 70-year record of the US Government wars which financed and armed the jihadists, and deployed them for regime change from Afghanistan to Bosnia, Kosovo, and Russia, and then to Egypt, Libya, Syria. As each of these wars has been defeated, their mercenary armies, camp followers, and baggage trains have moved on. They are now at the gates of Europe, as Ferguson reports unoriginally. How the failures of Washington warmaking despatched them there is missing from his tale, and so from the lesson he draws.[/quote]
(Re. the 'Americans think that anything that is said with a British accent must be exceptionally smart' subdiscussion - I do use an occasional 'amongst' and 'amidst', but I draw the line at 'whilst', unless I'm deliberately trying to tweak someone.)

Xyzzy 2015-11-25 16:33

[url]http://www.npr.org/2015/11/25/457270481/should-the-phrase-islamic-extremism-be-used-its-debatable[/url]

[QUOTE]Florida Sen. Marco Rubio shot back the day after the Democratic debate that not using the phrase "radical Islam" or "Islamic state" would "be like saying we weren't at war with Nazis, because we were afraid to offend some Germans who may have been members of the Nazi Party but weren't violent themselves."[/QUOTE]

Xyzzy 2015-11-30 14:37

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/30/the-radical-unrepentant-ideology-of-abortion-clinic-killers/[/url]

[QUOTE]In the 12 years since Hill’s execution, dozens of people have taken up his call, attacking abortion clinics with bombs and bullets, acid and axes.[/QUOTE]

R.D. Silverman 2015-11-30 14:45

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;417765][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/30/the-radical-unrepentant-ideology-of-abortion-clinic-killers/[/url][/QUOTE]

Indeed. So much for being "pro-life". They are anything but.

I believe that statistics back up the following claim:

Within the US over the past dozen years or so, [b]domestic[/b] terrorists have taken
more lives than "outsiders". Yet it is only the latter that are the targets of hate.
Can you say "tribal mentality"????

The so-called Christians/Evangelicals/White Trash Supremicists/Rednecks.....
in this country do not aim their vitriol at domestic terrorists
because "they may be SOBs but they are OUR SOBs". As long as the
people committing the terrorism are seen as part of one's tribe or belonging
to the same ideology, it is "OK".

Indeed. This last statement/quote is also made very clear by the
"Black Lives Matter" movement. I strongly agree that Black people in the U.S.
are subjected to regular racism by the police. But they seem to focus on
a fairly small number of murders (and yes they are murders) by the police
while ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of Black homicides are committed
by other Black people. This is another example of "tribal mentality, US vs. THEM".
Consider for example, the 9 yr. old who was gunned down in Chicago. Where
is the Black outrage over that incident?

And yes, I count the police among domestic terrorists.

I think anthropologists agree that much of current human behavior is driven by
tribal mentality that we inherited from our (more) primitive ancestors. Which is
not to claim that we ourselves are not primitive.

xilman 2015-11-30 19:13

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;417767]Indeed. So much for being "pro-life". They are anything but.

I believe that statistics back up the following claim:

Within the US over the past dozen years or so, [b]domestic[/b] terrorists have taken
more lives than "outsiders". Yet it is only the latter that are the targets of hate.
Can you say "tribal mentality"????

The so-called Christians/Evangelicals/White Trash Supremicists/Rednecks.....
in this country do not aim their vitriol at domestic terrorists
because "they may be SOBs but they are OUR SOBs". As long as the
people committing the terrorism are seen as part of one's tribe or belonging
to the same ideology, it is "OK".

Indeed. This last statement/quote is also made very clear by the
"Black Lives Matter" movement. I strongly agree that Black people in the U.S.
are subjected to regular racism by the police. But they seem to focus on
a fairly small number of murders (and yes they are murders) by the police
while ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of Black homicides are committed
by other Black people. This is another example of "tribal mentality, US vs. THEM".
Consider for example, the 9 yr. old who was gunned down in Chicago. Where
is the Black outrage over that incident?

And yes, I count the police among domestic terrorists.

I think anthropologists agree that much of current human behavior is driven by
tribal mentality that we inherited from our (more) primitive ancestors. Which is
not to claim that we ourselves are not primitive.[/QUOTE]
:goodposting:

chalsall 2015-11-30 21:45

[QUOTE=xilman;417790]:goodposting:[/QUOTE]

+1.

kladner 2015-11-30 23:21

In light of Bob's endorsed comment above, I will put[URL="http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/how-tech-fails-led-to-air-force-strike-on-msfs-kunduz-hospital/"] this story on the MSF Hospital attack[/URL] in this terrorism thread. Basically, I don't believe these BS excuses. Besides, how was it that they went about a lethal mission with malfunctioning systems? I don't believe that this was an accident.
[QUOTE][B][SIZE=3]How tech fails led to Air Force strike on MSF’s Kunduz hospital[/SIZE][/B]
Sensor and network failures put crosshairs on the wrong target.

On November 25, General John F. Campbell, the commander of US Forces in Afghanistan, announced the findings of an initial investigation into the air strike by an Air Force AC-130 gunship that hit a Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF, or Doctors Without Borders) trauma center in Kunduz, Afghanistan on October 3. The strike—in which the AC-130 attacked using its onboard cannon, killing 30 patients and members of the MSF hospital staff and injuring another 34—lasted nearly a half-hour.


Campbell [URL="http://www.defense.gov/News/News-Transcripts/Transcript-View/Article/631359/department-of-defense-press-briefing-by-general-campbell-via-teleconference-fro"]called the strike "a tragic, but avoidable accident caused primarily by human error."[/URL] But among the secondary factors cited in the report, he noted, there were several contributing technical failures, including a networking failure that could have provided information that would have prevented the mistaken targeting of the hospital. Furthermore, information systems available to the command responsible for the aircraft failed to alert those on duty in the operations center that the target selected by the aircraft was on a no-strike list.

[/QUOTE]

chalsall 2015-11-30 23:30

[QUOTE=kladner;417813]I don't believe that this was an accident.[/QUOTE]

Can't speak to that.

But [URL="http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-drone-contractor-20151127-story.html"]this LATimes article[/URL] might relate.

gd_barnes 2015-11-30 23:30

[QUOTE=xilman;417790]:goodposting:[/QUOTE]

+2 !!

kladner 2015-12-01 00:19

[QUOTE=chalsall;417817]Can't speak to that.

But [URL="http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-drone-contractor-20151127-story.html"]this LATimes article[/URL] might relate.[/QUOTE]

Another brick in the wall.

I can't present anything but opinion on the hospital attack. I just think the Rube Goldberg chain of alleged causes is a bit too involved.

Uncwilly 2015-12-01 01:10

[QUOTE=kladner;417821]I just think the Rube Goldberg chain of alleged causes is a bit too involved.[/QUOTE]Have you ever looked into accident investigations, like the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster"]Tenerife airport disaster[/URL] or all the factors that lead up to the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Accident"]Apollo 1 fire[/URL] (like Gus Grissom's Mercury incident)?
Strange and improbable things can and do happen. Hanlon's razor and all.

R.D. Silverman 2015-12-01 12:13

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;417826]Have you ever looked into accident investigations, like the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster"]Tenerife airport disaster[/URL] or all the factors that lead up to the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Accident"]Apollo 1 fire[/URL] (like Gus Grissom's Mercury incident)?
Strange and improbable things can and do happen. Hanlon's razor and all.[/QUOTE]

Or the Titanic?

kladner 2015-12-01 16:02

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;417826]Have you ever looked into accident investigations, like the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster"]Tenerife airport disaster[/URL] or all the factors that lead up to the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Accident"]Apollo 1 fire[/URL] (like Gus Grissom's Mercury incident)?
Strange and improbable things can and do happen. Hanlon's razor and all.[/QUOTE]

In Kunduz, I strongly suspect, at best assumptions, that the "Government Work Principle" as in, "Close Enough for Government Work", was in play. "We were supposed to blow something up. We blew something up."

There are worse possibilities. From early on, it was said that Afghan forces did not like MSF because they would treat anyone, including Taliban wounded.

Then, there is the general history of US forces, especially in the air, of having a Wild West Shoot 'em Up attitude toward whatever, or whoever, is on the ground. They're all just T****-heads and Sand-n******, anyway.

EDIT: [URL="https://www.change.org/p/tell-president-obama-to-consent-to-independent-investigation-of-kunduz-hospital-bombing?tk=k9PD7xYHIR-4jey7sSHAjHhijFGtojepllMNU98j6SY&utm_source=petition_update&utm"]This page[/URL] presents the MSF viewpoint.

chalsall 2015-12-01 18:34

[QUOTE=kladner;417902]"We were supposed to blow something up. We blew something up."[/QUOTE]

This post is possibly irrelevant. But then again, maybe not...

Last night my girlfriend and I went to the drive in to see "Sicario". Good ratings, but I found it largely "USA good, Mexico bad". (As an aside, the Bajans in the other cars honked their horn in support of the killing of Mexicans early on in the movie, but then drove off when the thinking about justification got a little heavy.)

A couple of evenings earlier we watched "American Sniper". Again, good reviews. But again, almost entire "USA good, Middle East bad". Linda walked away half-way through in disgust.

Many years ago we saw "The Hurt Locker". Same thing...

My point is:

What very little of the mass media shows is a balanced perspective... Specifically, two main points:

1. If drugs weren't illegal, then there wouldn't be a profit motive.

1.2. If there wasn't a profit motive for illegal activity, then it wouldn't happen.

1.2.1. This probably would reduce the amount of drug-supply related deaths.

1.3. To be clear, I'm not saying that "hard" drugs should be encouraged. But almost without question marijuana is less harmful than, say, alcohol, to society as a whole.

1.4. It might make sense to spend the billions of dollars spent on the "drug war" on treatment and rehabilitation, rather than having a large percentage of the population who continue to use drugs to fund criminals.

2. If fossil fuels weren't so embedded in our economies, then perhaps we wouldn't have so much conflict in many oil-rich regions.

2.1. I am hopeful (perhaps naively) that this will actually be solved within our lifetimes.

R.D. Silverman 2015-12-01 18:34

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;417767]Indeed. So much for being "pro-life". They are anything but.

I believe that statistics back up the following claim:

Within the US over the past dozen years or so, [b]domestic[/b] terrorists have taken
more lives than "outsiders". Yet it is only the latter that are the targets of hate.
Can you say "tribal mentality"????

The so-called Christians/Evangelicals/White Trash Supremicists/Rednecks.....
in this country do not aim their vitriol at domestic terrorists
because "they may be SOBs but they are OUR SOBs". As long as the
people committing the terrorism are seen as part of one's tribe or belonging
to the same ideology, it is "OK".

Indeed. This last statement/quote is also made very clear by the
"Black Lives Matter" movement. I strongly agree that Black people in the U.S.
are subjected to regular racism by the police. But they seem to focus on
a fairly small number of murders (and yes they are murders) by the police
while ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of Black homicides are committed
by other Black people. This is another example of "tribal mentality, US vs. THEM".
Consider for example, the 9 yr. old who was gunned down in Chicago. Where
is the Black outrage over that incident?

And yes, I count the police among domestic terrorists.

I think anthropologists agree that much of current human behavior is driven by
tribal mentality that we inherited from our (more) primitive ancestors. Which is
not to claim that we ourselves are not primitive.[/QUOTE]

See also:

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/11/attacks_on_abortion_clinics_should_be_prosecuted_as_terrorism.html[/url]

and

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/robert_lewis_dear_is_one_of_many_religious_extremists_bred_in_north_carolina.html[/url]

ewmayer 2015-12-01 23:55

[url=http://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-first-french-massacre/]The First French Massacre[/url] | Eric Margolis
[quote]Last week’s massacre in Paris was not, as almost every writer mistakenly claimed, the worst atrocity in the City Of Light since World War II.

As the renowned Mideast expert Robert Fisk quickly pointed out, an even worse atrocity occurred in Paris 54 years ago, on 17 October, 1961.

Paris chief Maurice Papon, a former Vichy official, who had sent over 1,000 Jews to their deaths during the war, unleashed his brutal riot squads on 30,000 Arab demonstrators calling for the independence of Algeria from French colonial rule. In an orgy of killing, some 200 Algerians were killed. Many were beaten senseless, then thrown from the Pont St. Michel bridge into the Seine River. 11,000 Algerians were arrested and cast into internment camps or a sports stadium.

I was in Paris when this mass killings occurred. Six months later, I was again visiting Paris when four retired French generals tried to stage a coup d’etat against the government of President Charles de Gaulle and Prime Minister Michel Debré which planned to grant Algeria independence after 132 years of French colonial rule.[/quote]
And [url=http://scotthorton.org/interviews/2015/11/23/112315-eric-margolis/]here is an 11/23/2015 interview with Margolis[/url] on the Scott Horton radio show (h/t NC reader 'Pavel').

kladner 2015-12-03 00:27

1 Attachment(s)
Radical Christianity.

Uncwilly 2015-12-03 01:59

[URL="https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/12/mass_shootings.png&w=1484"]2 "mass shootings" in one day, 355 for 2015[/URL]

R.D. Silverman 2015-12-03 13:23

More Hatred
 
[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;417925]See also:

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/11/attacks_on_abortion_clinics_should_be_prosecuted_as_terrorism.html[/url]

and

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/robert_lewis_dear_is_one_of_many_religious_extremists_bred_in_north_carolina.html[/url][/QUOTE]

The world is going (not so quietly) crazy.

Now people are finding it necessary to spew hatred toward fat people:

[url]http://www.today.com/news/fat-shaming-cards-handed-out-london-subway-are-met-these-t59196[/url]

It seems that too many people these days are anxious to spew some kind of hateful message towards
some group of people. Is this yet more tribalism? Or is it just people spewing hate in any direction
they can because they are dissatisfied with their own pathetic lives??

ewmayer 2015-12-03 22:36

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;418111]The world is going (not so quietly) crazy.

Now people are finding it necessary to spew hatred toward fat people:[/QUOTE]

I *hate* people who do that kind of stuff.

chalsall 2015-12-03 23:16

[QUOTE=ewmayer;418142]I *hate* people who do that kind of stuff.[/QUOTE]

What do you call someone who hates bigots?

R.D. Silverman 2015-12-04 00:21

[QUOTE=chalsall;418145]What do you call someone who hates bigots?[/QUOTE]

Moral?
Rational?
Intelligent?

Brian-E 2015-12-04 00:34

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;418111]It seems that too many people these days are anxious to spew some kind of hateful message towards
some group of people. Is this yet more tribalism? Or is it just people spewing hate in any direction
they can because they are dissatisfied with their own pathetic lives??[/QUOTE]
Interesting questions!
My guess is that your final suggestion hits the mark. People who hate others are indeed dissatisfied with their own lives, and they feel low self-esteem. One effective way of repairing one's self-esteem is to deflect the negativity from oneself to others. That results in a feeling of superiority, which temporarily relieves oneself of the feeling of being inadequate.

R.D. Silverman 2015-12-04 17:38

[QUOTE=Brian-E;418152]Interesting questions!
My guess is that your final suggestion hits the mark. People who hate others are indeed dissatisfied with their own lives, and they feel low self-esteem. One effective way of repairing one's self-esteem is to deflect the negativity from oneself to others. That results in a feeling of superiority, which temporarily relieves oneself of the feeling of being inadequate.[/QUOTE]

I have said the same thing in other threads.

Xyzzy 2015-12-18 03:22

[url]http://www.wtvm.com/story/30780459/augusta-co-schools-closed-friday-due-to-controversial-assignment[/url]

[QUOTE]"When I saw the language, the Arabic language, immediately, I had a bad feeling come over me," concerned parent Kimberly Herndon told WVIR.[/QUOTE]

Xyzzy 2015-12-18 08:25

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/arabic-calligraphy-shuts-schools_56737382e4b06fa6887cdc1f[/url]

[QUOTE]"She should be FIRED for that," Herndon wrote. "She should be fired because she had them write an abomination to their faith and causes a little girl to cry herself to sleep because she was worried she had denounced her God."[/QUOTE]

kladner 2015-12-18 08:40

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;419583][URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/arabic-calligraphy-shuts-schools_56737382e4b06fa6887cdc1f[/URL][/QUOTE]

Such virulent hate from the self-professed "stand(ers) behind Jesus."

Jesus better watch his back.

[QUOTE]"She should be FIRED for that," Herndon wrote. "She should be fired because she had them write an abomination to their faith and [U]causes a little girl to cry herself to sleep because she was worried she had denounced her God."[/U] [/QUOTE]

I wonder if the "little girl" cried herself to sleep because her raging zealot mother [U][I]told[/I][/U] her that she had renounced her god.

retina 2015-12-18 08:43

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;419583][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/arabic-calligraphy-shuts-schools_56737382e4b06fa6887cdc1f[/url][quote]"She should be FIRED for that," Herndon wrote. "She should be fired because she had them write an abomination to their faith and causes a little girl to cry herself to sleep because she was worried she had denounced her God."[/quote][/QUOTE]If we'd stop teaching children that magical mythical beings are real then none of this would be a problem. Wake up people, it is all a huge scam. See it for what it is.

kladner 2015-12-18 08:52

[QUOTE=retina;419585]If we'd stop teaching children that magical mythical beings are real then none of this would be a problem. Wake up people, it is all a huge scam. See it for what it is.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.

ewmayer 2015-12-18 22:23

[QUOTE=kladner;419584]I wonder if the "little girl" cried herself to sleep because her raging zealot mother [U][I]told[/I][/U] her that she had renounced her god.[/QUOTE]

Any 'renunciation' scenario betrays gross ignorance because Judaism, Christianity and Islam all profess to believing in the same One True God. At worst one might worry about having done wrong by the designated-one-true-prophet of one's faith (and in fact Muslims also revere Jesus, just in the *a* prophet rather than the *the* prophet sense, and consider the whole son-of-God idea to be appalling apostasy, since God is the eternal highest in their eyes). Of course ignorance and zealotry have longstanding historical linkages, so no surprise on any front here.

Xyzzy 2015-12-18 23:54

[url]http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/ted-cruzs-religious-test-for-syrian-refugees[/url]

[QUOTE]Cruz told reporters that we should accept Christians from Syria, and only Christians, because “there is no meaningful risk of Christians committing acts of terror.” [/QUOTE]

Xyzzy 2015-12-21 15:43

[url]http://www.restore-christian-america.org/schoolprayer.html[/url]

kladner 2015-12-21 16:41

1 Attachment(s)
Compare:
The removal of [B][U]P[/U][/B]rayer from the [U][B]S[/B][/U]chools.
The removal of [U][B]P[/B][/U]irates from the [B][U]S[/U][/B]eas:

Coincidence? I don't think so! rAmen!

kladner 2015-12-23 02:29

An Idiot’s Guide to Why They Hate Us
 
[URL="http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/22/an-idiots-guide-to-why-they-hate-us/"]A rundown of US foreign policy[/URL], and of Blowback. The "Aerial Traffic Jam" is only the first of a collection of horrors.
[QUOTE]“Without looking at the various polling data” Trump later elaborated, [U]“it is obvious to anybody the hatred is [I]beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine[/I],” [/U]Trump said in a statement. “[I]Until we are able to determine and understand this problem [/I]and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, that have [U][I]no sense of reason or respect for human life[/I]”[/U] (emphasis added).

The statement is either incredibly disingenuous or astonishingly foolish. Nobody who is reasonably knowledgeable and honest about the long and ongoing history of U.S.- and Western-imperial policy in the Middle East, Southwest Asia, and Africa has any business claiming to find the origins of anti-American and anti-Western terrorism in the Muslim world mysterious.

[B]An “Aerial Traffic Jam” of “One-Sided Massacre” (1991)[/B]
“No sense of reason or respect for human life”? Seriously? Among the countless episodes of mass-murderous U.S. savagery in the Muslim world, one that I can never seem to forget occurred a quarter-century ago. I am referring to the epic carnage wreaked by the U.S. military on Iraq’s notorious “Highway of Death,” where U.S. forces massacred tens of thousands of surrendered Iraqi troops retreating from Kuwait on February 26 and 27, 1991. The Lebanese-American journalist Joyce Chediac testified that:[INDENT]“U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. ‘It was like shooting fish in a barrel,’ said one U.S. pilot. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun…for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely…. ‘Even in Vietnam I didn’t see anything like this. It’s pathetic,’ said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer…U.S. pilots took whatever bombs happened to be close to the flight deck, from cluster bombs to 500 pound bombs…U.S. forces continued to drop bombs on the convoys [I]until all humans were killed[/I]. So many jets swarmed over the inland road that it created [I]an aerial traffic jam, and combat air controllers feared midair collisions[/I]…. The victims were not offering resistance…it was simply a one-sided massacre of tens of thousands of people who had no ability to fight back or defend.” (Ramsey Clark et al., [URL="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0944624154/counterpunchmaga"]W[/URL][I][URL="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0944624154/counterpunchmaga"]ar Crimes: A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq to the Commission of Inquiry for the International War Crimes Tribunal[/URL], [/I]testimony of Joyce Chediac, emphasis added).
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]

ewmayer 2015-12-23 04:55

Re. Trump: And yet for every blowhard-populist statement he makes on foreign policy he also makes some quite-cogent ones. Compare Trump and Sanders in the last debate of their respective parties (h/t Jim Haygood):

TRUMP: [I]"In my opinion, we’ve spent \$4 trillion trying to topple various people that frankly, if they were there and if we could’ve spent that \$4 trillion in the United States to fix our roads, our bridges, and all of the other problems; our airports and all of the other problems we’ve had, we would’ve been a lot better off. I can tell you that right now.

We have done a tremendous disservice, not only to Middle East, we’ve done a tremendous disservice to humanity. The people that have been killed, the people that have wiped away, and for what? It’s not like we had victory.

It’s a mess. The Middle East is totally destabilized. A total and complete mess. I wish we had the \$4 trillion or \$5 trillion. I wish it were spent right here in the United States, on our schools, hospitals, roads, airports, and everything else that are all falling apart."[/I]

SANDERS: [I]"I’m running for president because I want a new foreign policy; one that takes on Isis, one that destroys ISIS, but one that does not get us involved in perpetual warfare in the quagmire of the Middle East but rather works around a major coalition of wealthy and powerful nations supporting Muslim troops on the ground. That’s the kind of coalition we need and that’s the kind of coalition I will put together."[/I]

Which one sounds more like a typical Republican? I mean Sanders takes the straight reactionary neocon line w.r.to the GWOT and 'moderates' it by throwing in some completely silly crap about 'wealthy and powerful nations supporting Muslim troops on the ground.' You mean like the Saudis, who are supporting ISIS and busily committing their own atrocities in Yemen while the U.S. (and by extension the rest of the western world) politely looks away?


Or [URL="http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/263086-trump-hillary-has-killed-hundreds-of-thousands-of-people"]Trump on Hillary's dismal record of warmongering and chaos-spreading[/URL]:
[quote]Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump is pinning blame for the Syrian civil war and the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria on Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

“She is the one that caused all this problem with her stupid policies,” Trump said on “Fox News Sunday.” “You look at what she did with Libya, what she did with Syria.”

“You look, she was truly, if not the, one of the worst secretary of States in the history of the country,” he added. “She talks about me being dangerous; she’s killed hundreds of thousands of people with her stupidity.”

Fox News host Chris Wallace questioned Trump about the claim.

“What do you mean, ‘hundreds of thousands?’” Wallace asked.

“She was secretary of State. Obama was president, the team,” Trump responded. “Two real geniuses.”

Clinton has publicly broken from the Obama administration on Syria since stepping down as secretary of State, advocating for increased U.S. involvement in the conflict, such as by implementing a no-fly zone.[/quote]How many of the other candidates are talking truth about the same inane, murderous overseas adventures of our dear elite 'deciderers'? Anyone? Bueller?

And note Hillary's latest 'break from the Obama administration on Syria' is in the pro-warmongering direction -- i.e. all she has 'learned' from the neverending terror-fueling wars of the last 2 administrations is that the U.S. needs to do even more of this kind of thing - and preferably also get into a serious tussle with Russia. And worse, in her case, beyond mere political-campaign verbiage we have an extensive record of mass-murderous policies. She scares me a lot more than Trump because we know with near-certainty what another Clinton presidency would look like in terms of both foreign policy, the domestic economy and that whole 'rule of law' thing that was once at least imagined as occasionally applying to the mighty and the meek in similar fashion.

retina 2015-12-23 05:04

Perhaps some people misunderstand the [i]real[/i] point of wars and warmongering. It is not to "win" or to be a "victor" (under the various definitions of those words), but instead to enrich the political elite and strengthen their positions of power over others. And in that sense the wars have been a tremendous success for the US. So well done to the US politicians and their cronies, you succeeded in your task. But let's not think about all those people that were killed and maimed and traumatised by their policies, that might make people see the truth, and we can't have that.

Nick 2015-12-23 09:04

[B]US stops British Muslim family from boarding flight to visit Disneyland
[/B]
[QUOTE]A British Muslim family heading for Disneyland was barred from boarding a flight to Los Angeles by US authorities at London’s Gatwick airport amid concerns of an American overreaction to the perceived terrorist threat. US Department of Homeland Security officials provided no explanation for why the country refused to allow the family of 11 to board the plane even though they had been granted travel authorization online ahead of their planned 15 December flight.

Senior politicians have been drawn into the case, warning that a growing number of British Muslims are being barred from the US without being told the reason for their exclusion.
[/QUOTE]Press article: [B][URL]http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/us-stops-british-muslim-family-flight-disneyland-david-cameron[/URL][/B]

xilman 2015-12-23 12:18

Also at the Beeb: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35167511[/url]

Cost them £9000+ with no refund in sight ATM.

The US is becoming an ever less attractive place to visit, whether for business or pleasure. I gave up years ago.

ewmayer 2015-12-23 22:14

"Concerns of an *American* overreaction"?

'Look, folks - we're so concerned about what the idiot Yanks might do to you once on their soil, we're going to detain you right here and now, for your own safety, obviously. Oh please, no need to thank us...'

Xyzzy 2015-12-27 15:53

[url]http://www.kait8.com/story/30828800/sheriffs-department-adds-in-god-we-trust-to-patrol-units[/url]

[QUOTE]"The United States Treasury Department who are represented, by and for the people, choose to have ‘In God We Trust’ on our nation's currency," Sheriff Tribble said. "We have chosen to believe enough that we put it on our nation's currency. I choose, like the people, to put it on our patrol units. It's our national motto and the basis or root of the country."[/QUOTE]

chalsall 2015-12-27 20:48

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;420292][QUOTE]The United States Treasury Department who are represented, by and for the people, choose to have ‘In God We Trust’ on our nation's currency," Sheriff Tribble said.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Which God?

There are many....

Nick 2015-12-27 20:59

The 2 Euro coin has writing inscribed around the rim depending on the country of origin. The Dutch version has "God zij met ons" (God be with us).
On coins of a certain country, no writing is visible but if you place the coin briefly in a fire, then a strange lettering appears: "One coin to rule them all ..."

kladner 2015-12-27 21:54

[QUOTE=Nick;420315]The 2 Euro coin has writing inscribed around the rim depending on the country of origin. The Dutch version has "God zij met ons" (God be with us).
On coins of a certain country, no writing is visible but if you place the coin briefly in a fire, then a strange lettering appears: "One coin to rule them all ..."[/QUOTE]
ROFLMAO!

chalsall 2015-12-27 22:14

[QUOTE=kladner;420319]ROFLMAO![/QUOTE]

Few would get that. But, yeah, pretty funny! :smile:

LaurV 2015-12-28 02:28

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;420292] ‘In God We Trust’ [/QUOTE]
The window of the car shows a dog. I just think that the policemen could not spell correctly, what they wanted to write is "In Dog We Trust". That is actually why they always come in groups of two, one can read and one can write. Or, if one can read and write, then his partner is guarding a scientist. Sometime you can see two policemen and a dog. In that case the dog can read and write.

(adaptation from an old communist joke, same as your policeman must have a partner, our former communist policemen always came in groups of three, that was the law at that time, and the people make jokes like: Q: Why they always are three? A: one can read, one can write, and the third is guarding two scientists)

Xyzzy 2015-12-30 20:41

[url]http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2015/12/americans_support_religious_fr.html[/url]

[QUOTE]Americans place a higher priority on preserving the religious freedom of Christians than for other faith groups, ranking Muslims as the least deserving of the protections, according to a new survey.[/QUOTE]

Xyzzy 2016-01-03 15:54

[url]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/01/02/heres-what-supreme-court-justice-scalia-just-said-about-religious-neutrality-the-constitution-and-why-god-has-been-good-to-america/[/url]

[QUOTE]Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said Saturday the idea of religious neutrality is not grounded in the country’s constitutional traditions and that God has been good to the U.S. because Americans honor him, the Associated Press reported.[/QUOTE]

Xyzzy 2016-01-19 16:43

[URL]http://www.kait8.com/story/30995939/westside-school-board-considers-creating-course-on-academic-study-of-the-bible[/URL]

[QUOTE]The Westside School District is looking into working the academic study of the Bible into their curriculum.[/QUOTE]

xilman 2016-01-19 19:38

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;423049][URL]http://www.kait8.com/story/30995939/westside-school-board-considers-creating-course-on-academic-study-of-the-bible[/URL][/QUOTE]Believe it or not, I did an academic study of the Bible at school when aged 14-16. The synoptic gospels and Isiah.

Xyzzy 2016-01-19 19:53

[QUOTE=xilman;423096]Believe it or not, I did an academic study of the Bible at school when aged 14-16. The synoptic gospels and Isiah.[/QUOTE]We think that would be an interesting class.

We suspect that an alternative class focusing on the Koran is not likely to be offered here in Arkansas.

:mike:

kladner 2016-01-25 06:53

Interesting Comparison
 
[URL="http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/22/the-cowliphate-and-poisoned-kids-twin-assaults-on-the-commons/"]The Cowliphate and Poisoned Kids[/URL]: Twin Assaults on The Commons

I can't really describe this piece. It comes from a really serious activist. So serious that I have a hard time dealing with his wide-ranging vehemence. I personally know people who are similarly "activated", though with somewhat different foci.

I would normally provide an excerpt, but I can't see how to make it representative. This piece does, however, pursue an interesting comparison, within the the framing of "The Commons."
EDIT: I actually mostly agree with the author, but he sure is "In-Your-Face." :rant:

Nick 2016-01-25 09:59

[QUOTE=kladner;423960][URL="http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/22/the-cowliphate-and-poisoned-kids-twin-assaults-on-the-commons/"]The Cowliphate and Poisoned Kids[/URL]: Twin Assaults on The Commons
[/QUOTE]

From [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state[/URL]
[QUOTE]
The Fund for Peace characterizes a failed state as having the following characteristics: [LIST][*]Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein[*]Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions[*]Inability to provide public services[*]Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Amazing how parts of the United States now resemble a failed state.

kladner 2016-01-25 16:49

[QUOTE=Nick;423971]From [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state[/URL]


Amazing how parts of the United States now resemble a failed state.[/QUOTE]
Tragic, but true.

kladner 2016-01-27 03:53

Oregon armed protest leader Ammon Bundy seized in deadly clash
 
One person has died during an operation by US police to [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35416516"]arrest the leader of an armed occupation at a wildlife refuge in Oregon.[/URL]
[QUOTE]
Ammon Bundy and five others were arrested during a traffic stop, police said. One person was injured.[/QUOTE]

More [URL="http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/bundys_in_custody_one_militant.html"]here[/URL] from Oregon Live.

firejuggler 2016-03-22 16:19

2 more terrorist attack in Bruxelles (Belgium) this time. 36 dead /200 wouned. Attack were in an airport, the otther in a metro station. EI ( état islamique well you know ISIS) claim to be responsible.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brussels-airport-explosions_us_56f0f754e4b084c6722146dc[/url]
:censored::censored::censored::censored:

firejuggler 2016-03-22 17:55

I know there is at least 20 terrorist attack since the 13rd November but still (link following in french and an image of where/when those attack occured)
[url]http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2016/03/22/la-belgique-20e-pays-touche-par-le-terrorisme-islamiste-depuis-le-13-novembre_1441282[/url]

ewmayer 2016-03-23 02:24

[QUOTE=firejuggler;429795]I know there is at least 20 terrorist attack since the 13rd November but still (link following in french and an image of where/when those attack occured)
[url]http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2016/03/22/la-belgique-20e-pays-touche-par-le-terrorisme-islamiste-depuis-le-13-novembre_1441282[/url][/QUOTE]

Does that count include drone strikes or not?

kladner 2016-03-23 04:06

[QUOTE=ewmayer;429827]Does that count include drone strikes or not?[/QUOTE]
Don't you know? Anyone who dies by Hellfire missile is, by definition, a terrorist, an insurgent, or a militant, regardless of age, gender, or ideological leanings.

Xyzzy 2016-04-28 13:47

[url]http://time.com/4310349/tennessee-religious-counseling-bill/[/url]

[QUOTE]Tennessee’s Republican governor says he has signed a bill that allows mental health counselors to refuse to treat patients based on the therapist’s religious or personal beliefs.[/QUOTE]

Brian-E 2016-04-28 22:59

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;432714][URL]http://time.com/4310349/tennessee-religious-counseling-bill/[/URL][/QUOTE]
Why doesn't the Tennessee governor sign a bill legislating how GIMPS must optimise the search for Mersenne Primes whilst he's at it? I'm sure he has his views on how far we should trial factor the candidates before doing an LL test.

Any professional counsellor will tell him that counselling starts with the client's point of view and works things from there. The therapist's religious views are irrelevant.

kladner 2016-07-15 17:36

More Horror -Nice
 
[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle"]Nice attack[/URL]: truck driver named as France mourns 84 killed in Bastille Day atrocity

[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/lorry-rams-bastille-day-crowd-in-nice-killing-at-least-70"]84 dead[/URL] after truck rams Bastille Day crowd in Nice

Words fail.

xilman 2016-07-15 20:43

[QUOTE=kladner;438207]Words fail.[/QUOTE]How about "Nice is not nice"?

The lorry came to a halt about 100m from the hotel in which I stayed for a recent Eurocrypt.

firejuggler 2016-07-16 00:04

and turkey is victim ( saved?) by its own military.

kladner 2016-07-16 04:36

[QUOTE=firejuggler;438227]and turkey is victim ( saved?) by its own military.[/QUOTE]
It seems that [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083"]Erdogan has reasserted himself.[/URL]

xilman 2016-07-16 06:29

[QUOTE=firejuggler;438227]and turkey is victim ( saved?) by its own military.[/QUOTE]Coo!

If Bulgaria wanted to get into Turkey, would Greece help?

kladner 2016-07-16 06:39

[QUOTE=xilman;438239]Coo!

If Bulgaria wanted to get into Turkey, would Greece help?[/QUOTE]

There is a traditional animosity with Greece, as illustrated by Cyprus. However, I doubt Greece has anything to spend on adventures, just now. And Bulgaria?!
[SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrchid]My irony detector is currently in the shop.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

xilman 2016-07-16 10:43

[QUOTE=kladner;438240][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrchid]My irony detector is currently in the shop.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]You should send your bad pun detector for an overhaul and see if you can get a 2-for-1 deal.

kladner 2016-07-16 15:28

[QUOTE=xilman;438250]You should send your bad pun detector for an overhaul and see if you can get a 2-for-1 deal.[/QUOTE]
Duh! :davieddy:

only_human 2016-07-16 19:22

[QUOTE=kladner;438260]Duh! :davieddy:[/QUOTE]
Don't feel bad. Not only did my mental detector fail to beep on this irony but I actually spent several minutes online reading about reinforced border fencing, migrants, EU-Turkey deals etc.

So, in today's issue of as the wormwood churns, this poor shlub hallucinated patterns on walls. It's funny how the humerus tingles when something unexpectedly strikes from an oblique angle. I think my detector was still dialed down from the Nice incident.

kladner 2016-07-20 22:00

‘Fraud’ Alleged in NYT’s MH-17 Report
 
[QUOTE]An amateur report alleging Russian doctoring of satellite photos on the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 case – a finding embraced by The New York Times – is denounced by a forensic expert as an “outright fraud,”[/QUOTE] [URL="https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/19/fraud-alleged-in-nyts-mh-17-report/"]reports Robert Parry.[/URL]

It has long seemed obvious that the truth of this matter flies in the face of US geopolitics. Failure to publish satellite imagery is only the most glaring indication that the US is pursuing an alternate reality.


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