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-   -   Could a small neighborhood conquer the Roman empire? (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27030)

Uncwilly 2021-07-29 21:49

Explosives of various sources can be ISRU items. Most of the weapons would be covered under the concept of "I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you." Stainless steel shields and armor, kevlar, sutures, sulfa drugs, IR googles, locally sourced items (IEDs), etc. could make for a very effective commando unit. You don't need a tank, just something better than the foe. A single Spanish Armada warship would obliterate a flotilla of triremes. No need for a nuclear powered sub or a a WW II battleship. Most of the Spanish warship tech would be maintainable in 200 BC.

LaurV 2021-07-30 03:28

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;584347]... would be covered under the concept of "I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you."[/QUOTE]
Haha, that is brilliant, I didn't hear it before.

Putting gasoline on fire: Why would you need to free the slaves? The slavery empires were the most productive types of societies in history, compared to the production means, ways and tools available at the time. What the hack, they build pyramids and Chinese walls with ropes and pulleys, and we, in the technological society, can't even wipe our asses because we go to the toilet with the mobile phone to watch youtube during sh!tting and we have both hands busy scrolling and typing.

In fact, if I would be able to go back to time and create a pink future for me there, I would try to change as less as possible, to make sure the future won't change so much so I can still, in the future, be born, find the time machine, blah blah blah. It would be kind of nightmare-ish, I'll have to be even more careful than [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Eternity"]Andrew Harlan[/URL].

Dr Sardonicus 2021-07-30 13:34

[QUOTE=MooMoo2;584298]I'd keep the social structure mostly the same, but would introduce modern knowledge like germ theory and the steam engine: [url]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18114087-the-knowledge[/url]

With that advantage, I'd have a reasonable shot at conquering a few continents in 30 years or so.[/QUOTE]Since you'd keep the social structure "mostly the same," your objective in overthrowing the existing government appears to be merely replacing the old boss with the new boss - yourself.

Why you would want to reign over an empire in a world 2000 years in the past - though, arguable, not [i]our[/i] past - is beyond me. You would give up practically every technical advance since the time of your incursion. Given the alteration of history you would wreak, it seems likely to me that your future would no longer be the future you came from. Your present would no longer be our past, and your future would no longer be our present. You would never be able to come back.

Apparently you would rather fantasize about using a time machine to take over the world of 20 centuries ago, and introducing modern technology to make life easier for its people, than doing anything to make life easier or better for the people of the world we're actually living in. Have you given up on the present world?

I would also point out that by the middle of the Nineteenth Century, the steam engine had been invented and was coming into wide use, obviating the need for muscle power in many tasks. And yet, some American states rebelled and tried to secede from the Union, in order to preserve the idea of white supremacy and the institution of slavery. It took a bloody war to put a stop to slavery. And, alas, white supremacy and its manifestations persist in the United States to this day.

xilman 2021-07-30 14:21

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;584398] It took a bloody war to put a stop to slavery. And, alas, white supremacy and its manifestations persist in the United States to this day[/QUOTE]
In the US.

It is worth remembering that the British Empire ended slavery over 30 years earlier and Brazil around 30 years later. Neither required bloody wars.

Perhaps US society might be less toxic today if the American Colonies had been given (not taken) independence at roughly the same time as Canada and Australia.

chris2be8 2021-07-30 15:33

If I could travel back in time to make one change to history I would head for Sarajevo in 1914 to prevent the assination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. That would indirectly save over 200M lives.

Chris

Dr Sardonicus 2021-07-30 16:41

[QUOTE=xilman;584404]It is worth remembering that the British Empire ended slavery over 30 years earlier and Brazil around 30 years later. Neither required bloody wars.[/quote]Yes, and Russia abolished serfdom in 1868 without a war.

Abraham Lincoln had hoped that slavery in the US would wither away if it was prevented from expanding to other States. From his second inaugural address: [quote]<snip>
Both parties deprecated war but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves not distributed generally over the union but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen perpetuate and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it.
<snip>[/quote][quote]Perhaps US society might be less toxic today if the American Colonies had been given (not taken) independence at roughly the same time as Canada and Australia.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean. Canadian independence (self-governance) came in 1867, and Australian independence in 1901 - both being after the US Civil War.

It might be worth remembering that the British penal colony in what is now Australia was only established in 1788, which is after the US was already independent.

MooMoo2 2021-07-30 19:49

[QUOTE=retina;584319]As an alternative to all the use of force, violence and generic brute force methods, you could just be patient and wait a few hundred years for the empire to collapse all by itself.

Waiting a few hundred years is easy since all you need to do it change the destination date on the time machine.[/QUOTE]
It would probably be harder (and possibly require more violence) to create an empire from scratch than to take over an existing empire.

MooMoo2 2021-07-30 20:13

[QUOTE=kriesel;584318]The qualified personnel will mostly want handguns & handgun ammo of [URL="https://www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/usmc-rules-gunfighting-complete-list/"]caliber that begins with a 4[/URL][/QUOTE]
[Quote]
25. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a “4.”

*****

US Navy Rules for Gunfighting
1. Adopt an aggressive offshore posture
2. Send in the Marines
3. Drink Coffee

US Air Force Rules for Gunfighting
1. Kiss the wife goodbye
2. Fly to target area, drop bombs, fly back
3. Grill some burgers and drink beer

US Army Rules for Gunfighting
1. See USMC Rules for Gunfighting
2. Add 30 days
3. Hope the Marines already destroyed all meaningful resistance
[/quote]
:rofl:

xilman 2021-07-31 13:49

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;584422]I'm not sure what you mean. Canadian independence (self-governance) came in 1867, and Australian independence in 1901 - both being after the US Civil War.[/QUOTE]

Each of which were decades after 1776.

xilman 2021-07-31 13:50

[QUOTE=chris2be8;584412]If I could travel back in time to make one change to history I would head for Sarajevo in 1914 to prevent the assination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. That would indirectly save over 200M lives.

Chris[/QUOTE]WWI was inevitable. Sarajevo was only the excuse.

xilman 2021-07-31 13:52

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;584422]It might be worth remembering that the British penal colony in what is now Australia was only established in 1788, which is after the US was already independent.[/QUOTE]When I flew to Sydney I had to fill in a form, one question was whether I had a criminal record.

I was surprised to see that it was still an entry requirement.


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