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-   -   What "weed need" is a space mission! (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=17609)

Mark Rose 2018-01-08 17:25

[QUOTE=chalsall;476929]You know launching and then landing again is getting a bit routine when even the SpaceX control room is more than half empty... :smile: :tu:

FH, on the other hand, should be *really* exciting![/QUOTE]

I think it's more likely because this one required top secret clearance to be there, which generally means need-to-know only people being present.

only_human 2018-01-09 03:55

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;476920]And they stick the landing, again. :yawn:[/QUOTE]

The payload though might be lost.

VictordeHolland 2018-01-09 07:13

[QUOTE=only_human;477033]The payload though might be lost.[/QUOTE]
How " convenient " to lose a classified mission. Guess we'll hear the real story in 20-30 years....

chalsall 2018-01-09 14:55

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;477035]How " convenient " to lose a classified mission.[/QUOTE]

Indeed...

The fact the second stage did its re-entry burn exactly when and where scheduled suggests that it wasn't a separation issue, and so the reports saying that Zuma "burned up" after not reaching orbit is flatly wrong.

/Perhaps/ the satellite failed once on orbit, but I would put the odds of that as pretty low.

kladner 2018-01-09 16:04

[QUOTE=only_human;477033]The payload though might be lost.[/QUOTE]
This seems like deliberate obfuscation. Could Bloomberg and WSJ be conduits for disinformation?
[url]https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket[/url]

only_human 2018-01-09 16:12

[QUOTE=kladner;477065]This seems like deliberate obfuscation. Could Bloomberg and WSJ be conduits for disinformation?
[url]https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket[/url][/QUOTE]

I like the summation in that article but don't have a favorite conclusion. The only additional info I would add is just a little more detail from Jonathan McDowell in this other article:
[URL="https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/where-is-zuma/"]WHERE IS ZUMA?[/URL]

kladner 2018-01-09 16:34

Whatever the conclusion, the water is nice and muddy, now.

chalsall 2018-01-09 16:40

[QUOTE=kladner;477065]This seems like deliberate obfuscation. Could Bloomberg and WSJ be conduits for disinformation?[/QUOTE]

I couldn't find the article at the moment (was reading it late last night on my phone when I couldn't sleep), but it turns out that Zuma (now designated USA 280) was inserted into almost the exact same orbital plane as another NRO spy satellite, USA 276, that SpaceX launched in 2017.

The speculation is that USA 280 is either an experimental refuelling ship, or else (more likely) USA 280 and USA 276 are going to quickly swap positions, with USA 276 quietly de-orbiting.

Uncwilly 2018-01-09 16:51

This:[QUOTE]This morning, SpaceX’s president and COO Gwynne Shotwell doubled down on SpaceX’s original statement. “For clarity: after review of all data to date, Falcon 9 did everything correctly on Sunday night,” she said. “If we or others find otherwise based on further review, we will report it immediately. Information published that is contrary to this statement is categorically false.”[/QUOTE]
and this:[QUOTE]Meanwhile, SpaceX is pretty pleased with the launch. The company has been tweeting pictures from the mission, indicating that all went well. Plus, SpaceX rolled out its new Falcon Heavy rocket to its primary launchpad for an upcoming test, which probably wouldn’t have happened if there was a major issue with the company’s rocket hardware.[/QUOTE]
lead me to believe that the failure was after the payload separation.

Dubslow 2018-01-09 17:48

Such stories aren't a cover-up, because any actual satellite would be visible to any sort of military radar as well as amateur/public satellite trackers.

only_human 2018-01-09 17:50

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;477074]This:
and this:
lead me to believe that the failure was after the payload separation.[/QUOTE]

Well SpaceX doesn't seem to be manifesting the cringing behavior of an ashamed pet but since they weren't responsible for payload separation on this mission it's hard to judge from their demeanor if payload separation occurred.

chalsall 2018-01-09 18:48

[QUOTE=Dubslow;477078]Such stories aren't a cover-up, because any actual satellite would be visible to any sort of military radar as well as amateur/public satellite trackers.[/QUOTE]

What if this is an experiment of orbital stealth technology?

ewmayer 2018-01-11 02:22

'Conspiracizing' freely, perhaps the U.S.'s latest spy-sat launch ran into another country's nearby [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome]Kessler syndrome[/url] experiment? The earth-orbit analog of a suicide vest ... I wonder what kind of dispersive payload would work best in practice - sand, bird shot, or something larger like ball bearings?

kladner 2018-01-11 04:03

[QUOTE]sand, bird shot, or something larger like ball bearings[/QUOTE]
All depends on relative velocities between the impactor and impactee, doesn't it?

only_human 2018-01-11 13:11

Politics in the after action reaction. (Bloomberg)
[URL="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/lawmakers-look-into-spacex-launch-that-ended-with-lost-satellite"]Lawmakers Look Into SpaceX Launch That Ended With Lost Satellite[/URL]
Soundbites and fury.
[QUOTE]Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, who heads the panel that approves appropriations for NASA, said the lost satellite raises new questions about SpaceX contracts. Shelby is a strong supporter of United Launch Alliance, which has operations in his state.

“[B]The record shows they have promise, but they’ve had issues as a vendor,” Shelby said Wednesday, referring to SpaceX. “United Launch, knock on wood, they’ve had an outstanding record.[/B]”

United Launch Alliance was the sole provider for the Pentagon until Musk began a campaign in Congress and the courts challenging what he called an unfair monopoly. After an extensive Air Force review, SpaceX was certified in 2015 to compete for military launches.[/QUOTE]

Here is an older soundbite from Shelby:
[URL="https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/nasa-inspector-questions-why-agency-built-rocket-test-stands-in-alabama/"]NASA inspector questions why agency built rocket test stands in Alabama[/URL]
[QUOTE]Finally, the inspector general's report notes that building the test stands at Stennis made more sense from a geographical standpoint. After the fuel tanks are built at Michoud Assembly Facility in southeastern Louisiana, they must be shipped by barge to the test stands. Stennis is only about 40 miles away, whereas Marshall lies 1,240 miles away and requires navigating the Mississippi, Ohio, and Tennessee rivers. Shipping a single tank from Michoud to Marshall takes about two weeks and $500,000. Sending tanks to Stennis requires less than a week and only $200,000.

The loss of a few tens of millions of federal dollars might not be much of a story but for the fact that critics have assailed NASA's rocket program as a political beast, designed to maximize jobs in the districts of key US senators and representatives. Indeed, among the most vocal of SLS proponents has been US Senator Richard Shelby. The Alabama Republican proclaimed in 2011 that “[B]The ability of NASA to achieve our goals for future space exploration has always been and always will be through Marshall Space Flight Center[/B]."

He got his wish with the SLS fuel tanks.[/QUOTE]

wblipp 2018-01-24 20:32

[URL="https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/956221490785026053/video/1"]Falcon Heavy Static Fire happened today[/URL]. Launch scheduled for Feb 6.

Dubslow 2018-01-24 20:48

Elon Musk said "in a week or so", so who knows how that Feb 6th rumor will hold up, or even how Musk's timeline will. My best guess is that there's 2 to 1 odds it launches by the 15th, 1 to 2 odds it gets pushed back until after that.

Nick 2018-01-29 17:43

NASA's satellite IMAGE was launched in 2000 and contact was lost in 2005:
[URL]https://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/[/URL]

Now it appears an amateur astronomer has detected new transmissions from it, alerted NASA, and they're busy trying to re-establish contact:
[URL]https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/01/28/long-dead-nasa-spacecraft-wakes-up/[/URL]

kladner 2018-01-30 03:12

Wow. I hope they get it to respond.

Dubslow 2018-02-01 00:48

SpaceX did another launch today; though within the performance margins of droneship recovery, because of the relative age of the core, they didn't intend to recover the rocket, instead planning to test a higher thrust landing burn without risking damage to the droneship.

Instead, the new landing test worked so well that the rocket [i]accidentally[/i] survived the tipover onto the water.

[url]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/958847818583584768[/url]

First time in a ~dozen water landings that this has happened. They literally recovered a rocket by accident. To quote some smart alec [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ueeiu/elon_this_rocket_was_meant_to_test_very_high/"]on reddit[/URL]: "Someone update the mission thread to 'Failure' please, the 'expendable first stage' objective has tragically ended in recovery."

Uncwilly 2018-02-01 01:25

[QUOTE=Dubslow;478957]First time in a ~dozen water landings that this has happened. They literally recovered a rocket by accident. To quote some smart alec [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ueeiu/elon_this_rocket_was_meant_to_test_very_high/"]on reddit[/URL]: "Someone update the mission thread to 'Failure' please, the 'expendable first stage' objective has tragically ended in recovery."[/QUOTE]
The comments have me rolling in laughter. "We accidentally recovered a first stage."

LaurV 2018-02-01 09:22

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;478959]The comments have me rolling in laughter. "We accidentally recovered a first stage."[/QUOTE]
It is indeed extremely funny, hehe.

VictordeHolland 2018-02-02 12:10

No video of the latest launch and water landing?

wblipp 2018-02-02 15:17

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;479075]No video of the latest launch and water landing?[/QUOTE]

The launch is still on the [URL="http://www.spacex.com/webcast"]SpaceX webcast page[/URL]. That will change soon for Falcon Heavy's launch of Feb 6, but should be available on youtube. The only thing we have yet about the water landing is [URL="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/958847818583584768"]Elon's tweet [/URL]with a picture of it floating in the ocean.

VictordeHolland 2018-02-02 17:12

[QUOTE=wblipp;479091]The launch is still on the [URL="http://www.spacex.com/webcast"]SpaceX webcast page[/URL].[/QUOTE]
Thanks! Ahh, it is unlisted on Youtube, that's why I couldn't find it on their Youtube page...

I hope they release video of the stage1 splashdown burn :).

Uncwilly 2018-02-02 22:22

Since they were just going to throw this one away, they should instead donate it to the Smithsonian, the Kansas Cosmosphere, or for Kennedy's rocket garden. They have a Dragon hanging up in their headquarters in California. They also have a Falcon 1[SUP]st[/SUP] stage standing up outside.

chalsall 2018-02-05 16:36

Someone has a great sense of humour! :smile:

[URL="https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/hvo/d/fs-gently-used-orbital-launch/6480376032.html"]Gently Used Orbital Launch Vehicle[/URL]

xilman 2018-02-05 16:48

[QUOTE=chalsall;479343]Someone has a great sense of humour! :smile:

[URL="https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/hvo/d/fs-gently-used-orbital-launch/6480376032.html"]Gently Used Orbital Launch Vehicle[/URL][/QUOTE]Reminds me of an auction on Ebay some 16+ years ago now: [I]Two office buildings, some re-assembly required[/I]. That one was pulled within 48 hours but not before I had chance to see it.

chalsall 2018-02-05 19:35

If Musk does [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk338VXcb24&feature=youtu.be"]this kinda stuff in real life[/URL], just imagine what he dreams about.... :wink:

Dubslow 2018-02-06 03:03

In case anyone here is living under a rock (lets be honest, we probably all are), the Falcon Heavy's first launch attempt commences tomorrow at about 1830 UTC, which is roughly 15.5 hours from the time of this post.

VictordeHolland 2018-02-06 21:02

Falcon Heavy performed beautifully !
The two side-boosters LANDED almost simultaneously!
Anybody know if the center stage 1 landed on the drone ship?

CRGreathouse 2018-02-06 21:14

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;479464]Anybody know if the center stage 1 landed on the drone ship?[/QUOTE]

I still haven't heard anything, which makes me wonder if it didn't make it to [i]Of Course I Still Love You[/i]. Of course it's still a great success regardless.

only_human 2018-02-06 21:47

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;479468]I still haven't heard anything, which makes me wonder if it didn't make it to [i]Of Course I Still Love You[/i]. Of course it's still a great success regardless.[/QUOTE]

Reddit comments are not optimistic about center core.
[QUOTE] bitslizer • 1m
On the technical audio stream, at 38:29 you can hear them saying "We lost the center core"

[url]https://youtu.be/-B_tWbjFIGI?t=38m28[/url][/QUOTE]

latest Twitter comment:
[QUOTE] Elon Musk
@elonmusk
17m
Upper stage restart nominal, apogee raised to 7000 km. Will spend 5 hours getting zapped in Van Allen belts & then attempt final burn for Mars.[/QUOTE]

update: oh so beautiful...
[QUOTE]lon Musk
@elonmusk
4m
Live view of Starman youtu.be/aBr2kKAHN6M[/QUOTE]
[YOUTUBE]aBr2kKAHN6M[/YOUTUBE]
Looking at Earth through the windshield is surreal.

chalsall 2018-02-06 23:28

[QUOTE=only_human;479473]update: oh so beautiful...[/QUOTE]

This is such BS... I was watching this feed, and when they thought it wasn't live a PA ran up to Starman with a Starbucks Triple, Venti, Soy, No Foam Latte...

Also, clearly this has been chroma keyed. The earth which sometimes appears in the background has too little tessellation to be believable.

Dubslow 2018-02-07 03:43

Although there's been no sort of official PR on the matter, not even the usual space media subjects, the TMI was apparently visible from New Mexico to LA to Portland; in the absence of official communication, everyone is sort of assuming it was successful

Edit: speak of the devil: [url]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/961083704230674438[/url]

Uncwilly 2018-02-07 16:16

Since we have now had a launch of the Falcon Heavy (with known pricing of the launch), I thought it would be good to revisit the post that started it all.
[QUOTE=Uncwilly;322773]For all of you space buffs and fans, it is time to vent!

What is the most overlooked mission that you think should happen now?
What is a mission that you think should be given priority?
What mission would fill in some vital piece of knowledge or provide a new window of insight or explore new territory?

The rules:[LIST][*]It must be an unmanned mission.[*]It must not be directly overlap any current or currently [U][COLOR="DarkRed"]planned[/COLOR][/U] mission. This includes ESA (and all other European space agencies), NASA, RSA, [URL="http://b612foundation.org/"]B612[/URL], JAXA, and all other national agencies.[*]You have ~$1billion to work with.[*]No breakthrough tech allowed.[*]Must launch within 7 years and flight time to destination must be under 10 years. Primary Mission time is open, but must be covered by the funding.[*]Launch vehicles must be near term available (no SLS, but Falcon Heavy is ok), max of 2 launches, and the cost of the launches are part of the $1B. (Assume that the launched craft can auto-dock if needed).[*]A nominal amount of Deep Space Network support is available for a token charge.[/LIST]
Surprise us. Be creative.[/QUOTE]So we should update the assumption of available rockets. Still no SLS (you can't afford the ride and they are not available. No Big Falcon Rocket (aka BFR). And as a reminder, destinations are not missions.

kladner 2018-02-07 22:54

Get Ready to Rant!
 
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/07/elon-musk-spacex-launch-utterly-depressing[/url]
[QUOTE]Elon Musk is right: silly and fun things are important. But some of them are an indefensible waste of resources[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On Wednesday, two things happened. In Syria, [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/world/middleeast/syria-bombing-damascus-united-nations.html"]80 people were killed[/URL] by government airstrikes. Meanwhile, in Florida, Elon Musk fired a sports car into space. Guess which story has dominated mainstream news sites? The much-anticipated launch of Musk’s Falcon Heavy rocket, the most powerful ever launched by a private company, went off without a hitch. Musk successfully sent his cherry-red Tesla roadster hurtling toward Mars, launching what a CNN commentator called “[URL="https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/opinions/elon-musk-has-launched-a-breathtaking-new-space-age-seymour/index.html"]a new space age[/URL]”.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]There is, perhaps, no better way to appreciate the tragedy of 21st-century global inequality than by watching a billionaire spend $90m launching a $100,000 car into the far reaches of the solar system. [/QUOTE]

richs 2018-02-07 23:18

[QUOTE=Dubslow;479492]Although there's been no sort of official PR on the matter, not even the usual space media subjects, the TMI was apparently visible from New Mexico to LA to Portland; in the absence of official communication, everyone is sort of assuming it was successful

Edit: speak of the devil: [url]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/961083704230674438[/url][/QUOTE]

I saw the third burn last evening and at first thought it was some space debris coming down. Looking at the object with binoculars, I could then tell it was a rocket thrusting but was unsure if was SpaceX or North Korea.

kladner 2018-02-08 02:49

[QUOTE]There is, perhaps, no better way to appreciate the tragedy of 21st-century global inequality than by watching a billionaire spend $90m launching a $100,000 car into the far reaches of the solar system. [/QUOTE]
I should have added that I found this whole piece to be narrow minded and moralistic; while displaying no concept of the R&D involved, nor of the whole idea of testing risky hardware. Of course, there is an implicit judgement that this is just some rich guy's plaything, not an in-demand launch system.

As far as an overcrowded planet having lots of problems goes, that should provide even more impetus to find other viable habitats. "Viable" can include a lot of venues, as opposed to a single planet. Those habitats don't have to be planet-bound, outside of orbital mechanics, which would affect space-based possibilities just as much as they do terrestrial domiciles.

EDIT: Nor is there any concept of public relations or of promoting a cause.

retina 2018-02-08 03:27

[QUOTE=kladner;479573][url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/07/elon-musk-spacex-launch-utterly-depressing[/url][/QUOTE]Okay here is my rant.

Perhaps if the news don't give coverage to humans killing other humans, then said humans doing the killing might feel like they are aren't doing anything that is worthwhile because nobody cares?

[/rant]

Sorry the rant wasn't very long, or very strong.

kladner 2018-02-08 03:31

[QUOTE=retina;479592]Okay here is my rant.

Perhaps if the news don't give coverage to humans killing other humans, then said humans doing the killing might feel like they are aren't doing anything that is worthwhile because nobody cares?

[/rant]

Sorry the rant wasn't very long, or very strong.[/QUOTE]
EVERY contribution is Appreciated! "Come into the Light! All are welcome! All are welcome!" :razz:

Dubslow 2018-02-08 07:23

[QUOTE=kladner;479586]I should have added that I found this whole piece to be narrow minded and moralistic; [/QUOTE]

I would have called it "willfully ignorant and aggressively stupid", or at least the parts you quoted, but hey :smile: (based on what you quoted I decided that reading it was not only not worth my time but would probably make [i]me[/i] a bit stupider after the fact)

axn 2018-02-08 11:36

[QUOTE=Dubslow;479604](based on what you quoted I decided that reading it was not only not worth my time but would probably make [i]me[/i] a bit stupider after the fact)[/QUOTE]

I can confirm. Reading it made me lose 5 IQ points :ick:

ewmayer 2018-02-09 04:06

[QUOTE=kladner;479573][url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/07/elon-musk-spacex-launch-utterly-depressing[/url][/QUOTE]

As others note in replies, the extreme risk of catastrophic loss involved in this kind of high-risk proof-of-principle makes it a nontrivial exercise to come up with better ways to use the payload bay on this sort of first launch. However, with a little thought some things do spring to mind. Sponsoring a bunch of 'free launch, 50-50 odds of success/failure, so plan accordingly' student microgravity experiments not-needing-a-payload-return, for instance (Snappy ad slogan: "Yes, world, there really is such a thing as a free launch"). Or how about selling space to the well-heeled for the cremains of their loved ones and using the proceeds for good causes? I bet theres lots of useful things one could do - Musk could have sponsored a public contest soliciting ideas well in advance of the expected launch date.

Re. Musk-as-P.T.-Barnum, my main skepticism is that, as with fellow oligarchs like Peter (seasteading proselytizer) Thiel, when Musk says one of the goals of SpaceX is to help "save humanity from itself", he really means "save those who can afford the ticket to Mars from the Deplorables." Hope I'm wrong, but time and time again we are reminded that that is how the Billionaire class rolls.

Dubslow 2018-02-09 06:00

His goal for a ticket price to Mars is around $200K. He firmly believes that's achievable, and that it doesn't place the financial burden too high. It [i]is[/i] a lot of course, but a significant minority -- possibly even majority, depending on how much they want to leave -- of America will be able to afford it.

As for payloads, supposedly both NASA and the Air Force were offered dibs. NASA turned it down for the mind numbingly stupid bureaucratic reason that it's "competition" to the SLS. (I'm not even sure I believe that rumor, to be honest.) As for the Air Force, they have already had the [i]second[/i] launch locked up as theirs for multiple years now already.

As for the public outreach part, well... this was a lot simpler, especially given the significant uncertainty of the launch date in question. If when, 3 years ago he believed it would launch within 6 months, the (e.g.) students they could have selected possibly wouldn't even be students any more by today. The substantial uncertainty and fluidity in the date actually go a long way towards explaining the payload, I think.

xilman 2018-02-09 07:25

[URL="https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2018/02/08/elon-musks-tesla-roadster-imaged-8-feb-2018/"]We're on the road to nowhere.[/URL]

kladner 2018-02-09 17:55

[QUOTE=xilman;479651][URL="https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2018/02/08/elon-musks-tesla-roadster-imaged-8-feb-2018/"]We're on the road to nowhere.[/URL][/QUOTE]
That is fantastic! I notice a tinier dot traveling in front, same apparent course and speed. Could this be another piece of the rocket?

ewmayer 2018-02-09 22:15

@Dubslow - good points, but the blast-ashes-of-a-bunch-of-people-and-pets-into-space fund-raising scheme is immune to all the constraints you mention. Heck, Im sure there was plenty of room to do that *and* fit the roadster - PR there could have been "crossing the Styx in an e-roadster, the modern way".

[QUOTE=xilman;479651][URL="https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2018/02/08/elon-musks-tesla-roadster-imaged-8-feb-2018/"]We're on the road to nowhere.[/URL][/QUOTE]

So much for any "low mileage!" claim in a potential future sale of the car...

Dubslow 2018-02-09 22:22

[QUOTE=ewmayer;479681] the blast-ashes-of-a-bunch-of-people-and-pets-into-space fund-raising scheme is immune to all the constraints you mention[/QUOTE]

From a logistical perspective, perhaps, but not necessarily from a human perspective, the customers and PR. If they sell those slots in 2014, the ashes themselves are of course not going to "go bad" or anything, but the people paying might get angry over repeated delays and pull out (despite the logistical non-problem).

Sure it all could have been done, but to what purpose? Lots of hassle, relatively little gain. The car was much less hassle.

Dubslow 2018-02-22 16:21

SpaceX launched the Paz satellite to SSO this morning -- in other news, they made the first attempted fairing recovery with their giant-net-on-a-boat and just missed (few hundred meters), while also deploying their prototype Starlink satellites Tintin A & B.

VictordeHolland 2018-02-22 16:51

I watched the livestream, beautifull launch!

Uncwilly 2018-02-22 19:09

[QUOTE=Dubslow;480642]they made the first attempted fairing recovery with their giant-net-on-a-boat and just missed (few hundred meters),[/QUOTE]This was a quicker than normal fairing sep (IIRC). The launch took the craft from the dark up into the sunlight altitudes. All 4 pieces (both stages and both halves of the faring) were visible with a bare eye from the ground at the same time.

Dubslow 2018-02-23 06:08

Typically on the order of 45-60s between staging and fairing sep. I didn't immediately notice anything unusual, though I wasn't really looking for such either

Uncwilly 2018-02-23 07:32

[QUOTE=Dubslow;480691]Typically on the order of 45-60s between staging and fairing sep. I didn't immediately notice anything unusual, though I wasn't really looking for such either[/QUOTE]Looking at the webcast 19:34 for staging, 19:56 for faring.

Dubslow 2018-02-23 08:27

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;480693]Looking at the webcast 19:34 for staging, 19:56 for faring.[/QUOTE]

Ah, I bet it's because of the different flight profile. Being a direct insertion to a 500km orbit, as opposed to a 200km parking orbit for e.g. GTO launches, the trajectory was probably somewhat more vertical. So, at staging, less velocity and more altitude -- and altitude is what controls fairing sep.

LaurV 2018-02-24 02:36

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;480693]Looking at the webcast 19:34 for staging, 19:56 for faring.[/QUOTE]
Hhrrmmm... any link?
(for us mortals who do not follow every step Mr. Musk takes...)

Edit: found it, we only had to go to main page and click "replay"....

Edit2: Ha! The guy said so many times that everything is wonderful and the weather is looking fantastic, that, even if I am watching a replay, and I know that the mission was a success, I am still a bit afraid that he will jinx it... :razz:

xilman 2018-02-27 18:37

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-43211192/moon-to-get-4g-mobile-network"]Moon to get 4G network
[/URL]

Ironic, because I can barely get a signal at home even though I live in one of the most geek-infested regions on Earth.

Nick 2018-02-27 19:15

[QUOTE=xilman;481080][URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-43211192/moon-to-get-4g-mobile-network"]Moon to get 4G network
[/URL]

Ironic, because I can barely get a signal at home even though I live in one of the most geek-infested regions on Earth.[/QUOTE]
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBgeMohcXOk[/URL]

LaurV 2018-02-28 06:24

[QUOTE=xilman;481080]even though I live in one of the most geek-infested regions on Earth.[/QUOTE]maybe that is why...

LaurV 2018-03-15 07:45

Now, it says that Stephen Hawking dies and went to Heaven. And God, after a bit of thinking, says: You will not need to stay here in the heaven with us. Due to your exemplary life and results, blah blah, we grant you the ability to fly through the Universe, visit any place, go into the black holes, etc., and enjoy the miracle of nature", blah blah... (some native English speaker can put this in better words).

Stephen left happily, but then he is back after few minutes... Saint Peter at the gates of the heaven asked him "What's wrong, you just left, bored already?"

Stephen angry: "No, I was flying among the stars and I was so happy... Then an idiot with a red Tesla hit me"...

petrw1 2018-03-15 15:10

[QUOTE=LaurV;482384]Now, it says that Stephen Hawking dies and went to Heaven. And God, after a bit of thinking, says: You will not need to stay here in the heaven with us. Due to your exemplary life and results, blah blah, we grant you the ability to fly through the Universe, visit any place, go into the black holes, etc., and enjoy the miracle of nature", blah blah... (some native English speaker can put this in better words).

Stephen left happily, but then he is back after few minutes... Saint Peter at the gates of the heaven asked him "What's wrong, you just left, bored already?"

Stephen angry: "No, I was flying among the stars and I was so happy... Then an idiot with a red Tesla hit me"...[/QUOTE]

:missingteeth:

VictordeHolland 2018-03-15 23:12

From stardust he was made,
He needed medical aid,
He had a computer voice,
But did not have a choice,
For a great mind he possessed,
With long life he was not blessed,
And to stardust he will return.

chalsall 2018-03-15 23:44

He arrived as most do.

He did extraordinary things while seriously challenged.

He departed leaving a legacy.

Uncwilly 2018-03-16 00:05

Posts 837 onward belong in the RIP thread.

kladner 2018-03-16 01:37

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;482448]
For a great mind he possessed,
With long life he was not blessed,.[/QUOTE]
Dude! He was 76. I call that a triumph of the will.....and good luck.

LaurV 2018-03-19 09:52

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;482453]Posts 837 onward belong in the RIP thread.[/QUOTE]
There, people wouldn't know where the red Tesla is coming from :razz:
(that is why I posted here, actually I didn't expect any continuation by other posters, and of course, all posts can be moved, I have no problem with it)

kladner 2018-03-19 14:40

No problem here.

VictordeHolland 2018-03-21 17:30

Soyuz-FG MS-08 carrying expedition 55 to the ISS launch window opening at 18:44 CET (UTC+1) (in 15 minutes)

Livestream at NASA TV:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMDvPCGeE0[/url]

Dubslow 2018-03-21 20:00

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;482987]Soyuz-FG MS-08 carrying expedition 55 to the ISS launch window opening at 18:44 CET (UTC+1) (in 15 minutes)

Livestream at NASA TV:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMDvPCGeE0[/url][/QUOTE]


The telemetry graphics were pretty cool, I wish SpaceX had stuff like that. I was equally pleased to see velocity in m/s rather than kph, as well :smile:

Nick 2018-03-29 21:30

[URL="http://blogs.esa.int/rocketscience/2018/03/26/tiangong-1-reentry-updates/"]Tiangong-1 re-entry updates from the ESA[/URL]

VictordeHolland 2018-03-29 21:32

TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) will watch almost the complete sky over the course of 2 years. Finding exoplanets of bright nearby stars using the transit method (also used by Keplar). The tiny satellite (350kg) will be launched by a Falcon 9 on April 16 if everything goes to plan.

TESS:
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4KjvPIbgMI[/URL]

chalsall 2018-03-29 22:05

SpaceX has scheduled a launch tomorrow morning at 14:13 UTC.

10# (ten) Iridium Next kit is to be deployed. No attempt to recover the first stage is planned (it's already flown before).

Edit: Burn baby, burn. (Sorry; some might not get that joke.)

Uncwilly 2018-03-30 20:12

[QUOTE=chalsall;483789]SpaceX has scheduled a launch tomorrow morning at 14:13 UTC.

10# (ten) Iridium Next kit is to be deployed. No attempt to recover the first stage is planned (it's already flown before).[/QUOTE]:anurag::yawn:

xilman 2018-03-31 18:05

[QUOTE=chalsall;483789]Edit: Burn baby, burn. (Sorry; some might not get that joke.)[/QUOTE]But some of us might.

I liked it anyway.

Nick 2018-04-01 18:38

Update on Tiangong-1:
[QUOTE]
The estimated window of re-entry for the defunct Chinese space lab Tiangong-1 has narrowed sharply.
The timeframe for the fall to Earth is centred on 01:07 Monday GMT (02:07 BST), plus or minus two hours.[/QUOTE]
Press article: [URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43557446[/URL]

VictordeHolland 2018-04-18 22:47

[QUOTE=VictordeHolland;483788]TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite) will watch almost the complete sky over the course of 2 years. Finding exoplanets of bright nearby stars using the transit method (also used by Keplar). The tiny satellite (350kg) will be launched by a Falcon 9 on April 16 if everything goes to plan.

TESS:
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4KjvPIbgMI[/URL][/QUOTE]
(5 minutes till liftoff)
SpaceX Live webcast: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-0uBIYYKk[/URL]

[Edit 01:02 UTC+2]
So far so good, hope the relight of stage 2 in +-30 minutes goes ok, but I'm off to bed.

Uncwilly 2018-05-06 14:57

For those who may have missed:

NASA's Insight probe to Mars was launched ~4:05 am Saturday. It was the first every interplanetary probe launched first into a polar orbit, It was launched from the Vandenberg Air Force Base out in California. NASA held launch view parties along the flight path. Those closest to the launch were covered in fog and did not see anything.

Uncwilly 2018-08-12 08:30

Parker Solar Probe is on its way to the sun.

diep 2018-08-12 14:02

Hopefully when getting close to the Sun the Parker mission doesn't burn. I still find it difficult to believe it will be able to complete its mission. But you never know if you do not try... ..it's about such fundamental science which it might benefit in the long run, that it's more than worth the risk of looking like a clumsy beginner.

Flying at highspeed through a million degrees or so, for me incomprehensable how it can survive that, knowing the space craft travels at half a million miles an hour by then. Such "particles", provided they have any mass, i would expect to go right through the spacecraft and create a hole through whatever path they travelled.

But well so far the layman vision - let's see how it does do :)

masser 2018-08-12 14:23

[QUOTE=diep;493708]Hopefully when getting close to the Sun the Parker mission doesn't burn. I still find it difficult to believe it will be able to complete its mission. But you never know if you do not try... ..it's about such fundamental science which it might benefit in the long run, that it's more than worth the risk of looking like a clumsy beginner.

Flying at highspeed through a million degrees or so, for me incomprehensable how it can survive that, knowing the space craft travels at half a million miles an hour by then. Such "particles", provided they have any mass, i would expect to go right through the spacecraft and create a hole through whatever path they travelled.

But well so far the layman vision - let's see how it does do :)[/QUOTE]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKinVmBoIrE"]Have you seen this?[/URL] I suspect there are still many things that could go wrong in that environment.

diep 2018-08-12 14:28

That's not relevant experiments.

It's travelling in reality at half a million miles an hour. It's not difficult to estimate what happens to a spacecraft when it gets hit at that speed by mass.

Question therefore is: will it get hit by mass?

Dr Sardonicus 2018-08-12 14:41

[QUOTE=diep;493708]Hopefully when getting close to the Sun the Parker mission doesn't burn.[/QUOTE]
Space missions to the sun were the subject of [dumb ethnicity du jour] jokes when I was in grade school. The way to avoid burning up was, they would go at night.

diep 2018-08-12 14:55

They say they got a heatshield.However the heatshield is just at 1 side of the spacecraft. We sure may hope the heat comes from just 1 direction - another thing i highly doubt.

Some missions you simply have to do in the end - but there is always too many expensive plans on the planet which have a long life and after some decades suddenly someone signs up for it, ignoring the problems with positive talk and wishful thinking.

From a distance seen this seems like that last. Let's hope i'm wrong.

It's gonna get cooked like a shrimp in a boiling pan.

xilman 2018-08-13 21:07

[QUOTE=diep;493715]They say they got a heatshield.However the heatshield is just at 1 side of the spacecraft. We sure may hope the heat comes from just 1 direction - another thing i highly doubt.[/QUOTE]
Whether you doubt it or not, it's true. Virtually all the heating is from solar radiation which is carefully kept in front of the spacecraft. Behind and off to the sides the sky is black and very cold. Spacecraft engineers have been using this principle for decades because it applies in earth orbit as well as closer to the Sun.

An earlier doubt you expressed was hitting matter and whether it would "go straight through". It will hit mass undoubtedly but only in the form of extremely rarefied gas, something which would be regarded as an excellent high vacuum in these parts. The gas, mostly protons, helium nuclei and electrons are travelling nowhere near fast enough to penetrate the heat shield. The relative velocity is < 200 km/s, itself < 0.001c. Even at 0.9c only small amounts of erosion would take place.

Uncwilly 2018-08-13 21:27

[QUOTE=xilman;493829] It will hit mass undoubtedly but only in the form of extremely rarefied gas, something which would be regarded as an excellent high vacuum in these parts.[/QUOTE]In the lead up to the launch I watched the show and tell from the day before. There was mention of some very fine dust in the area and it being more important that the gas or heat coming in from the side. The velocity was asked about and the team said it was a non-issue, as there is nothing to have friction against.

VictordeHolland 2018-09-28 09:39

ULA will use BE-4 engines from Blue Origin on their Vulcan rocket (in development). We all saw this one comming, Aerojet reducing their funding on their AR1 engine and their ever slipping schedule. BE-4 is probably a cheaper engine anyway and has already had hot-firing tests done. And it runs on methane, which should provide good ISP, while still being denser than Hydrogen. And it burns more cleanly than RP-1, so you have less to worry about soot forming in the turbopumps/turbines/plumbing.

[url]https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/amazons-jeff-bezos-will-now-sell-rocket-engines-too/[/url]

It's a great time for rocket engine development, with SpaceX working on their Raptor engine (Full flow staged combustion Methane-LOX), which would also be a revolutionary design if they can get it to work efficiently. It is slightly less powerfull (in terms of thrust) than the BE-4 engine though.

Uncwilly 2018-10-07 06:11

There is a planned launch and RTLS landing projected for the USA's west coast by Space-X . This should be visible (in part) to millions of people.

They really need to get their Texas launch site up and running.

Dr Sardonicus 2018-10-12 14:14

Be nice if we could get our own astronauts to the ISS: [url=https://www.space.com/42097-soyuz-rocket-launch-failure-expedition-57-crew.html]Soyuz Rocket Launch Failure Forces Emergency Landing for US-Russian Space Station Crew[/url]

masser 2018-10-12 14:31

Parker Solar Probe
 
[URL="https://blogs.nasa.gov/parkersolarprobe/2018/10/02/fall-2018-milestones-for-parker-solar-probe/"]Parker Solar Probe Update[/URL]

We should hear about initial flyby results by the end of the year.

Uncwilly 2018-11-26 20:55

1 Attachment(s)
Photo from the area of Mars called as boring as a parking lot.

This is shaping up to be a good year.

A little spy has informed me that Space-X is preparing to catch a fairing on Wednesday.

Also, if you listen to the Orbital Mechanics podcast there is good things coming. (Can't say what, but fans of the show will enjoy it [hopefully].)

kladner 2018-11-27 10:11

The solar probe reminds me of a Ray Bradbury story which is as old as I am.
"The Golden Apples of the Sun" is the name of a Bradbury collection; but is also the name of a short story. That story is of a human-crewed ship venturing close to the sun. That captain speaks of toward and away from the sun as South and North.

masser 2018-11-27 14:03

Ray Bradbury has written some of my favorite short stories.

One of the things I find interesting about the Parker Solar Probe is its place in the history of solar exploration. It's breaking records set by a previous solar probe, Helios-B, in the mid 1970s. So, in some sense, we're "just" doing something we've already done before, but with updated instrumentation, tools and controls. We're answering new and refined questions with 40 more years of experience studying the sun.

xilman 2018-11-27 16:14

[QUOTE=masser;501042]So, in some sense, we're "just" doing something we've already done before, but with updated instrumentation, tools and controls.[/QUOTE]Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.

masser 2018-11-27 18:40

[QUOTE=xilman;501051]Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.[/QUOTE]

Careful with that axe, Eugene.

xilman 2018-11-27 19:26

[QUOTE=masser;501062]Careful with that axe, Eugene.[/QUOTE]
Aaaarrrgh!

chalsall 2018-12-03 18:22

SpaceX are about to launch. [URL="https://www.spacex.com/webcast"]Live streaming for anyone who cares[/URL]....

chalsall 2018-12-03 18:46

[QUOTE=chalsall;501591]SpaceX are about to launch. [URL="https://www.spacex.com/webcast"]Live streaming for anyone who cares[/URL]....[/QUOTE]

When I grow up I want to be Musk....


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