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-   -   Future requests? (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=16727)

chalsall 2013-10-06 22:16

[QUOTE=kladner;355442]So, who's who? Inquiring minds.....[/QUOTE]

LOL... There's a one in three chance I'm the one in the middle... :wink:

Inquiring minds don't just ask questions, but also do research...

The answer to this question can be determined with almost 100% certainty from publicly available information.... :smile:

kladner 2013-10-06 23:00

Touché! :smile:

LaurV 2013-10-07 05:58

[QUOTE=chalsall;355429]Also, I didn't hear back as to what the best TF level is: 71 or 72? Right now there are [URL="https://www.gpu72.com/reports/available/lldc/"]28 candidates[/URL] TFed to at least 72 bits ready for assignment.[/QUOTE]
James' site is very accurate when it comes to my cards. With AMD cards (HD7970, HD7990), 72 is the number, as the LL test is a bit slower on those, you clean the exponents faster by doing TF to 72. For the amount of TF and P-1 done on those expos, you will probabilistically clear 2.2 exponents by TF-ing to 71, in the same time you do one DC with clLucas, and you will clear 1.1 exponents in the same time, when you TF to 72. Going to 73 is wasting time, you can only clean 0.5-0.6 exponents, therefore you will clean them faster doing DC. For a GTX card (580), where LL-ing is a bit faster comparing to TF, you will better stop at 71. You can clean about 1.3-1.5 exponents TF-ing to 71, and only 0.6-0.7 exponents when TF to 72, in the same time you do one DC. Anyhow, I TF-ed to 72.

(by cleaning one exponent, I understand either running a series of TF assignments, until you find one factor, therefore eliminating ONE exponent in all this time, or either getting a matching DC residue, therefore eliminating that exponent. I also included in the calculus the probability to get a DC mismatch, considered empirically to be about 1 in 15-20 tests).

chalsall 2013-10-07 19:14

[QUOTE=LaurV;355477]For a GTX card (580), where LL-ing is a bit faster comparing to TF, you will better stop at 71. You can clean about 1.3-1.5 exponents TF-ing to 71, and only 0.6-0.7 exponents when TF to 72, in the same time you do one DC. Anyhow, I TF-ed to 72.[/QUOTE]

OK, then from this, does that mean that you (and possibly others) would be willing to do the TF work to 72, even if those with cards like the 580 only do the work to 71?

What I'm trying to determine is at what level should I transfer them over to "Anon" for DCing assignment? 71, or 72?

LaurV 2013-10-08 02:19

Well, if we have to vote, I would vote for 71. I just finished an "unlucky bag" of 64 assignments (71 and 72 combined) from gpu72 and didn't find any factor, therefore losing a bit more than one day. Considering that those exponents had one LL done (so invested time for TF should be half), and also had P-1 done, I think releasing them for DC at 71 would be ok. Just my two PoE. (don't look for it, no way that google returns the right link :smile:, it is the smallest coin in PP game, you can search "yppedia").

chalsall 2013-10-08 16:39

[QUOTE=LaurV;355570]Well, if we have to vote, I would vote for 71. I just finished an "unlucky bag" of 64 assignments (71 and 72 combined) from gpu72 and didn't find any factor, therefore losing a bit more than one day.[/QUOTE]

OK, but remember than probability has no memory... :wink: Given an infinite (or even large) sample-set, this TFing work should have been profitable. It will be interesting to watch [URL="https://www.gpu72.com/reports/factoring_cost/"]the empirical cost per factor found[/URL] statistics for this sub-range...

As there are currently 34 candidates at 72 or above ready to be assigned for DCing, I'm going to hold off on transferring at 71 for a little while. I may do the "last bit" (read: to 72) myself to keep you guys fed as needed.

kladner 2013-10-08 19:33

[QUOTE=davieddy;355571]WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU NEED TO ASK CHRIS?????

Who is in charge around here?[/QUOTE]

David-
He did not need to ask. He chose to. There is a cooperative community ethos in the GPU72 crowd. As mentioned in a previous post, Chris has some very utilitarian abilities which he shares with the group. There are no special privileges. Anyone could do these things. Chris has ready mechanisms for doing so with little effort. Since making a request to Chris is quick and easy, and he is willing to be accommodating, both the user and the project as a whole benefit.

I understand that there are differences of approach between you and Chris. I also understand that the both of you tend to be argumentative. However, argument does not need to involve invective and abuse. I'm sure that each of you has found the other irritating at times.

Nevertheless, when you go to all caps, and begin with "WHY THE FUCK....." it suggests deliberate provocation. I cannot address whether your posts are on full-time, or frequent advance moderation. However, a lack of [U]moderation[/U] in tone might bring about such a response.

You might also observe that there is a diminishing degree of tolerance for unnecessary turbulence among the regulars in these parts. You complain bitterly of being shut out, yet you don't seem to see that it is the waves you are making by thrashing and lashing about which are coming back to buffet you.

While there are other cases of animus on the forum as a whole, they don't generally infest the more technical areas. The GPU group, in particular, has a mostly cheerful tone, though there is competitiveness and teasing.

The Lounge is specifically grouped in Fun Stuff. When you persist in loud and abusive behavior, you are taking on the role, in pub terms, of a mean and obnoxious drunk. Like begets like. If you keep taking pokes at people, you can't really be too surprised if they eventually poke back. To carry the tavern metaphor one step further, you don't have real grounds for grievance should you find yourself on your ass in the street.

[CODE]And in the Euston tavern you screamed it was your shout
But they wouldn't give you service so you kicked the windows out
They took you out into the street and kicked you in the brains
So you walked back in through a bolted door and did it all again [/CODE]Sickbed of Cuchulain
-The Pogues
[YOUTUBE]h8ZAqxg__Rs[/YOUTUBE]

Aramis Wyler 2013-10-09 02:07

Can we get a report that has the wavefront (maybe 1 month and 3 month avgs) and how far we are ahead of it for each work type? No priority, I was just glancing around today to see where we were for p-1 and tf in the ll range and was thinking that it might be nice to see how we were doing for p-1, lltf, dc, and lmh in case someone felt like they needed to switch up their work.

LaurV 2013-10-09 04:34

[QUOTE=davieddy;355571]WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU NEED TO ASK CHRIS?????
Who is in charge around here?[/QUOTE]

Man, I can talk foul language better than you! I come from Romania :razz: we can go into Guinness book for the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_profanity"]language with the most profanities[/URL] reported to the total number of words, and be aware that Latin-derived languages have more words than other languages, due to the flexible word terminations (we have about one million words in the scrabble-accepted word list, which include all words with all their forms, contrary to English with has only about 268 thousand words in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOWPODS"]SOWPODS[/URL]). (I played Scrabble "pro level" 30 years ago, when SOWPODS only had 150k words, and its Ro version only 640k).

For sure George is in charge, but fuck me if I would bother him to ask for assignments. I would better know him doing improvements on P95 than looking for whatever numbers to give me to cook. On the other side, Chris has everything automated and he is very cooperative. My choice to do 37M is MY choice, and I don't give a fuck on what you, Chris or George says about. They can help me if they want, or not. I chosen the path of the least resistance, to see my goal done. I could do it on private, but I chose to do it publicly because I think the advice (of clLucas and 37M) is useful for other people too.

My big boss own my company, but I don't go to him for any freaking piece of paper, pencils, company car's keys, etc, every time I need such things. Wake up David! And come to your senses. Or are you envious that I didn't ask you first?

[edit 2: on the other hand, you should be happy, because me voting for 71 instead of 72 comes in line with your theory, and not with Chris' one :razz: But I always say what I think, regardless of who else is arguing on the subject]

chalsall 2013-10-09 17:44

[QUOTE=Aramis Wyler;355693]Can we get a report that has the wavefront (maybe 1 month and 3 month avgs) and how far we are ahead of it for each work type?[/QUOTE]

Interesting thought... :smile:

I have something crude which might slightly help present this... Compare [URL="http://www.mersenne.info/exponent_status_line_graph/1/0/"]this graph of exponent status[/URL] with [URL="http://www.mersenne.info/trial_factored_min_max/1/0/"]this one showing factoring depth.[/URL]

Unfortuantely I don't show P-1 data on Mersenne.info. Need to add that to my ToDo list (They just never get shorter! :cry:).

It would be interesting combining all of this data (plus additional, like assignment status) into a single graph / table / report.

(James: want to beat me to it? I wouldn't complain... :wink:)

Edit: Forgot to mention... Yes, I know about the error in dataset in the ~33M to 34M range... Mersenne.info needs some TLC....

NBtarheel_33 2013-10-09 18:42

Really thinking that we need some moderation/rules of conduct w.r.t. language on the forum. This project is something that is supposed to be worldwide, open to all ages, and all sensibilities, in its welcome to participate. Moreover, George has placed explicit faith in this forum and its users by including the forum URL as an "official" source for help in the Prime95 help menu. I believe I may have raised this point before, but if the first thread that a newcomer encounters is filled with vitriol and foul language, they are very likely to dismiss the whole project as being a joke, lost to Eternal September. If the newcomer is a kid and their parents should happen to witness some of this not-so-witty banter, we've lost a whole family's respect for GIMPS - and the way mothers gossip - likely a whole school district's respect for GIMPS.

Are we a serious mathematical distributed computing project, or an entry on the NetNanny black list? Didn't screaming swears on the Internet become passe around 1997?

David, you don't like GPU72. You might not even like Chris all that much. We get it. So stay out of the GPU forums (or perhaps the mods can *keep* you out), and post in other areas of the forum where you can offer something positive.

GPU72 has been adopted by users and tacitly endorsed by George. It is (for now) a law of the land. Deal with it. (Hmm, sounds eerily similar to the US government...)


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