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Nick 2014-09-14 07:24

Water security
 
Access to sufficient clean water for personal health and business production is becoming an increasing problem in many areas of the world. It is used for leverage in existing conflicts, and scarcity of fresh water supplies may in future become a source of conflict itself. As the climate changes, droughts in some areas are increasing, while others may see melting of large quantities of snow and ice.

Nick 2014-09-14 07:27

Alarm as almond farms consume California's water
 
[QUOTE]
Californian farmers, estimated to grow around 80% of the world's almonds, have been accused of siphoning off groundwater at the expense of the state's future water reserves.
As rivers and lakes have dried up, with more than 80% of the state in the grip of "extreme" or "exceptional" drought, the state's farmers have resorted to pumping groundwater – underground reserves – to nourish almond trees, vineyards and orchards. David Zetland, economics professor at Leiden University College in the Netherlands, says farmers are pumping water at a rate four to five times greater than can be replenished: "The people of the state of California are more or less destroying themselves in order to give cheap almonds to the world."
[/QUOTE]Full press article:
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/14/alarm-almond-farmers-drain-california-dry[/URL]

ewmayer 2014-09-15 00:55

Re. California crops, the really silly thing is that if growers simply made modest efforts (e.g. liberally use bark mulch and allow leaf litter to accumulate) to help retain water in the soild, they could easily cut their water needs in half or more. Go by a typical almond (or other) orchard in the central valley - in my case that happens every few years when I drive from the SF bay area to Yosemite - and what do you see? Endless rows of trees standing in bare dirt. I expect there is probably some reason for that related to ease-of-harvesting, but it surely pales compared to extremely rapid depletion of already-scarce groundwater that is being done to support the madness now. As far as household use, if the drought goes on a few more years I expect extensive rainbarrel collection systems fed from roof gutters and household-scale pumping and purification systems are going to become very common.

Interestingly, there are states (e.g. [url=http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/links-91314.html#comment-2307922]Colorado[/url]) which have legal enjoinments against such household-scale water collection, based on the idea of rainwater - even that falling on the roof of the house you mistakenly thought you owned - being a "public good". They'd rather see it run down the storm drains, apparently. (Or maybe this is just another form of municipal rent extraction, via "you need a permit for that".)

xilman 2014-09-15 16:04

[QUOTE=ewmayer;383050]As far as household use, if the drought goes on a few more years I expect extensive rainbarrel collection systems fed from roof gutters and household-scale pumping and purification systems are going to become very common.[/QUOTE]We've moderately large scale rainbarrel collection systems around our house, though entirely for watering the gardens so purification is not needed.

The UK is generally thought of as a rainy country but, believe it or not, around here in Cambridge is officially classified as semi-arid because we receive under 50cm of rainfall per annum ---- though not by much. Notoiously soggy cities like Marrakesh and Jerusalem receive more rainfall per annum than Cambridge.

pinhodecarlos 2014-09-15 16:09

I think it is amazing not having a water meter on my house in Irthlingborough, UK. I pay a monthly value, I can waste/spend all water I want.

xilman 2014-09-15 16:49

[QUOTE=pinhodecarlos;383090]I think it is amazing not having a water meter on my house in Irthlingborough, UK. I pay a monthly value, I can waste/spend all water I want.[/QUOTE]You are in a rapidly decreasing minority. Politicians of all kinds have been talking about making meters compulsory but there are never-ending arguments about who is to pay for them and how people who can not, or will not, pay their bills should be treated. I believe, but may be wrong, that newly built houses must have meters fitted from the start.

I've had a water meter for many years now. It's partly because I have to pay for every litre used that I collect rain water for the garden. It seems senseless pouring relatively expensive and highly treated water on to plants when free rainwater is perfectly good for them. The capital cost of the containers and the hose fitting was paid off within 2-5 years. The collection system holds about a tonne (a cubic metre) of water, which is almost always enough to keep the garden green during the dry spells.

ewmayer 2014-09-15 21:17

[QUOTE=xilman;383095]It seems senseless pouring relatively expensive and highly treated water on to plants when free rainwater is perfectly good for them.[/QUOTE]

Heck, even untreated toilet water - of the #1 variety, that is - is perfectly fine, and contains natural fertilizers. I've long wished toilets with a built-in diverter to become a common household fixture. (A simple screen on the toilet-built-in splitter could prevent accidental discharge of solid waste.) Now, especially if you're a gent, you can always take matters into your own hands, as it were, in terms of feeding your excreted nitrates into the garden, but ya gotta be aware of neighbors' eyes, and these days, drones.

In rural areas I've known folks who periodically mulch their gardens with "sufficiently fermented" septic tank waste - sounds nasty, but properly done makes very good environmental sense.

chalsall 2014-09-15 22:25

[QUOTE=ewmayer;383110]In rural areas I've known folks who periodically mulch their gardens with "sufficiently fermented" septic tank waste - sounds nasty, but properly done makes very good environmental sense.[/QUOTE]

Heck, only a few weeks ago I had to open the values of the tanks so they didn't overflow back up the intake pipes.

No joke.

Xyzzy 2014-09-16 02:52

[QUOTE]Heck, even untreated toilet water - of the #1 variety, that is - is perfectly fine, and contains natural fertilizers.[/QUOTE]Many outdoor camps are switching to waterless urinals. (The ones we used did smell some.)

[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/sustainable/waterless-toilet4.htm[/url]

In a previous life when we "lived in a desert" we partially buried 4" diameter PVC pipe into the sand at a 45° angle to serve as urinals.

Xyzzy 2014-09-16 03:23

Vaguely related: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_pollution[/url]

ewmayer 2014-09-17 02:36

Mark Rodenkirch (a.k.a. rogue) posted this NPR link to the Science News thread:

[url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/09/05/342469699/cheap-drinking-water-from-the-sun-aided-by-a-pop-of-pencil-shavings]Cheap Drinking Water From The Sun, Aided By A Pop Of Pencil Shavings[/url] | Goats and Soda | NPR

Sounds overoptimistic, though - What we really need is a cheap membrane-based version of industrial desalination technology - a membrane which allows fresh water to seep through without requiring large pressurization, and which doesn't clog (or at least does not clog very quickly) with use.

Note that if one is starting with fresh (but non-potable) water, one can sterilize it effectively using plastic bottles and sunlight:

[url]http://www.wikihow.com/Sterilize-Water-With-Sunlight[/url]

By way of earthquake preparedness, I'm gonna save up ~50 gallons worth of clear plastic family-sized juice jugs, fill 'em up with tap water and then simply leave them in a sunny nook of the patio for emergency use - the sunlight will keep them sterilized indefinitely.

================

Breaking news: [url=blogs.kqed.org/science/2014/08/29/landmark-groundwater-reform-headed-to-governors-desk/]Landmark Groundwater Reform Headed to Governor’s Desk[/url]

pinhodecarlos 2014-09-17 07:36

[QUOTE=xilman;383095]You are in a rapidly decreasing minority. Politicians of all kinds have been talking about making meters compulsory but there are never-ending arguments about who is to pay for them and how people who can not, or will not, pay their bills should be treated. I believe, but may be wrong, that newly built houses must have meters fitted from the start.

I've had a water meter for many years now. It's partly because I have to pay for every litre used that I collect rain water for the garden. It seems senseless pouring relatively expensive and highly treated water on to plants when free rainwater is perfectly good for them. The capital cost of the containers and the hose fitting was paid off within 2-5 years. The collection system holds about a tonne (a cubic metre) of water, which is almost always enough to keep the garden green during the dry spells.[/QUOTE]

Just figured out what is going on in here on the building. There is only one water meter so the bill is divided by the number of tenants and it is a fixed value.

kladner 2014-09-17 11:53

[QUOTE=ewmayer;383209].......
================

Breaking news: [URL="http://blogs.kqed.org/science/2014/08/29/landmark-groundwater-reform-headed-to-governors-desk/"]Landmark Groundwater Reform Headed to Governor’s Desk[/URL][/QUOTE]

A big part of the problem is shown in the photo at the top of the article: flood irrigation with open ditches. While it certainly costs more to install and maintain drip systems, wasting water will cost far more.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drip_irrigation[/URL]

"You Don't Miss Your Water (Till the Well Runs Dry)"
[YOUTUBE]iEQBDyTjF7U[/YOUTUBE]

Nick 2014-11-29 08:57

[QUOTE]In a system where corporate power reigns supreme, a nation can be legally challenged for attempting to ensure its population’s right to clean water.[/QUOTE]Open democracy article:
[URL]https://www.opendemocracy.net/ed-atkins/corporate-nullification-of-human-right-to-water-case-of-el-salvador[/URL]

kladner 2014-11-29 17:30

[QUOTE=Nick;388661]Open democracy article:
[URL]https://www.opendemocracy.net/ed-atkins/corporate-nullification-of-human-right-to-water-case-of-el-salvador[/URL][/QUOTE]

Disgusting:
[QUOTE] In the case of El Salvador, the human right to clean water, and the state’s responsibility to provide it, is being questioned and overruled by the deemed importance of [I]projected [/I]profits. Greed continues to be good. [/QUOTE]

Nick 2015-01-23 09:25

Brazil’s worst drought in history prompts rationing warning
 
[QUOTE]
The taps have run dry and the lights have gone out across swathes of Brazil this week as the worst drought in history spreads from São Paulo to Rio de Janeiro and beyond.
More than four million people have been affected by rationing and rolling power cuts as this tropical nation discovers it can no longer rely on once abundant water supplies in a period of rising temperatures and diminishing rainfall.
The political and economic fallout for the world’s seventh biggest economy is increasingly apparent.
[/QUOTE]Press article: [URL]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/23/brazil-worst-drought-history[/URL]

Nick 2015-02-13 08:50

US 'at risk of mega-drought future'
 
[QUOTE]
The American south-west and central plains could be on course for super-droughts the like of which they have not witnessed in over a 1,000 years.
Places like California are already facing very dry conditions, but these are quite gentle compared with some periods in the 12th and 13th Centuries.
Scientists have now compared these earlier droughts with climate simulations for the coming decades.
The study suggests events unprecedented in the last millennium may lie ahead.
"These mega-droughts during the 1100s and 1200s persisted for 20, 30, 40, 50 years at a time, and they were droughts that no-one in the history of the United States has ever experienced," said Ben Cook from Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
"The droughts that people do know about like the 1930s 'dustbowl' or the 1950s drought or even the ongoing drought in California and the Southwest today - these are all naturally occurring droughts that are expected to last only a few years or perhaps a decade. Imagine instead the current California drought going on for another 20 years."
Dr Cook's new study is published in the journal Science Advances, and it has been discussed also at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
[/QUOTE]Press article: [URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31434030[/URL]

only_human 2015-03-03 20:57

[QUOTE=Nick;383007]Full press article:
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/14/alarm-almond-farmers-drain-california-dry[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Californian farmers, estimated to grow around 80% of the world's almonds, have been accused of siphoning off groundwater at the expense of the state's future water reserves.
As rivers and lakes have dried up, with more than 80% of the state in the grip of "extreme" or "exceptional" drought, the state's farmers have resorted to pumping groundwater – underground reserves – to nourish almond trees, vineyards and orchards. David Zetland, economics professor at Leiden University College in the Netherlands, says farmers are pumping water at a rate four to five times greater than can be replenished: "The people of the state of California are more or less destroying themselves in order to give cheap almonds to the world."
[/QUOTE]
Another odd thing about these almond farmers is that seasonally they use most of the country's commercial bees:
[URL="http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/commercial-bees-unsung-heroes-nut-business"]Commercial bees, the unsung heroes of the nut business[/URL]
[QUOTE]Lewis, who runs Bill’s Bees, is taking about 700 of his hives on a road trip to the California’s Central Valley, where he’ll unload them across acres of almond orchards, working until 1 or 2 a.m. under the light of full moon.

All across the country, more than a million-and-a-half colonies are making a similar journey – traveling hundreds or even thousands of miles to pollinate California’s almonds. Farmers rent hives for few weeks because in order for almond trees to produce nuts, bees need to move pollen from one tree to another.

No bees, no almonds.

“This pollination season there will be [some] 800,000 acres of almonds that need to be pollinated,” says Eric Mussen, a honey bee specialist at the University of California Davis. He says more than 100 different kinds of crops need these rent-a-bees, but almonds are significant for the number of acres that require pollination all at the same time. About 85 percent of the commercial bees in United States – which Mussen calls “bees on wheels” – travel to California for almonds.

The state supplies roughly 80 percent of the world’s almonds, worth $6.4 billion during the 2013-2014 season, according to the Almond Board of California.[/QUOTE]

only_human 2015-03-14 21:37

Los Angeles Times opinion / op-ed by Jay Famiglietti
[QUOTE][I]Jay Famiglietti is the senior water scientist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory/Caltech and a professor of Earth system science at UC Irvine.[/I][/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-famiglietti-drought-california-20150313-story.html"]California has about one year of water left. Will you ration now?[/URL]
[QUOTE]Statewide, we've been dropping more than 12 million acre-feet of total water yearly since 2011. Roughly two-thirds of these losses are attributable to groundwater pumping for agricultural irrigation in the Central Valley. Farmers have little choice but to pump more groundwater during droughts, especially when their surface water allocations have been slashed 80% to 100%. But these pumping rates are excessive and unsustainable. Wells are running dry. In some areas of the Central Valley, the land is sinking by one foot or more per year.[/QUOTE]

ewmayer 2015-03-15 01:16

[QUOTE=only_human;397722]Los Angeles Times opinion / op-ed by Jay Famiglietti

[URL="http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-famiglietti-drought-california-20150313-story.html"]California has about one year of water left. Will you ration now?[/URL][/QUOTE]

[i]"Farmers have little choice but to pump more groundwater during droughts..."[/i]

Horse puckey - Especially the fruit & nut growers could consider leaving (or better, restoring) some natural-mulch groundcover in between all those thirsty trees to help trap moisture in the soil, but nooooooooooo - that might slightly increase their harvesting expenses, since bare packed dessicated dirt lends itself to fast tree harvesting. Heck, they'd be better off paving in between the trees with some low-budget asphalt or tarmacadam, since then the harvesting machines could drag-race around the place and despite getting melting-hot during the day the pavement would actually trap moisture very well. Maybe we need a multibillion-dollar federal "CA central valley parking-lot-ification" infrastructure initiative.

Everyone wants to live off the fruit of the land, but so very few folks actually want to do so in a sustainable manner. Humanity's plight writ large.

ewmayer 2015-03-16 00:08

p.s.: Scorching yesterday in CA, and I don't just mean SoCal and the desert oases like Palm Springs - in my neck of the SF Bay Area, San Jose hit 89F (32C), demolishing the old record-for-that-date, 81F. Madness. Today is thankfully cooling off markedly (meaning it only hit 80ish F), but I fear what the coming months - the 7 or 8 which are normally rain-free here - will bring.

xilman 2015-03-16 08:21

[QUOTE=ewmayer;397813]p.s.: Scorching yesterday in CA, and I don't just mean SoCal and the desert oases like Palm Springs - in my neck of the SF Bay Area, San Jose hit 89F (32C), demolishing the old record-for-that-date, 81F. Madness. Today is thankfully cooling off markedly (meaning it only hit 80ish F), but I fear what the coming months - the 7 or 8 which are normally rain-free here - will bring.[/QUOTE]Get out while you still can ...

only_human 2015-03-30 21:49

California can squeak by for three years instead of one year.
 
[URL="http://www.weather.com/climate-weather/drought/news/megadrought-scientists-reddit-ama-0"]NASA Scientists Have Frightening Answers About Future Megadrought in Reddit AMA[/URL]
[QUOTE]The AMA – an abbreviation for "Ask Me Anything" – [URL="http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/30d1be/science_ama_series_we_are_nasa_and_university/"]was hosted by four scientists who work for NASA[/URL]. Their areas of expertise range from climate science to hydrology, but they all have an important role in communicating a crucial message: the chance of a megadrought is growing in the United States, and we should be prepared to deal with crippling conditions by the end of the century.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Bill Patzert: As I understand the facts, we can survive for at least 3 years. This is water that is stored underground around the state. With our great system of aqueducts we can move these waters up and down the state.[INDENT]Mystik738 1 point4 days ago
Thanks. The reason I asked was because I read the piece by Jay Famiglietti and it seemed outright alarmist and lacking on a lot of details - like how much water California consumes annually and how much water was actually left in our reservoirs - so I did some quick work of my own and came up with a larger number than he had, and I was looking for some confirmation of that.[/INDENT][/QUOTE]
If/when the almond crops end, someone needs to think of the bees:
[URL="http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article15396410.html"]Bees need allies beyond Big Almond[/URL]

ewmayer 2015-04-02 05:51

[url=www.mercurynews.com/drought/ci_27827780/california-drought-gov-brown-join-water-officials-search]California drought: Gov. Jerry Brown announces first-ever statewide mandatory water reductions[/url]
[quote]In a historic declaration atop a Sierra summit barren of snow, Gov. Jerry Brown on Wednesday ordered California's first-ever mandatory statewide water restrictions, threatening hefty fines for communities -- and potential rate hikes for residents -- that fail to hit stepped-up conservation targets as the worst drought in state history enters its fourth year.

The governor's emergency order comes after a year of requests for voluntary conservation -- and a record-breaking warm and dry spell culminating in the worst April snowpack in recorded history -- have failed to alarm many Californians enough to cut back on water.
The Los Angeles Aqueduct carries water from the snowcapped Sierra Nevada near Lone Pine.
[/quote]

If you're a CA property owner, your word for the day is "xeriscaping". (And for tomorrow, "graywater".)

If you're a CA crop grower, time to learn some growing strategies which are more moisture-conserving than the current "remove all ground-covering vegetation and stick crops into the bare dirt, then water copiously to replace the water that escapes freely as the sun bakes the soil." Talk about inane. But oh so profitable as long as water is - or better, was - free.

To convey a sense of the magnitude of the Ag-wastage, I read today that a typical walnut grove needs 50 gallons PER WALNUT in each year's crop. Now I'm no big-time orchard owner, but I have nice little - well no longer quite so little, it's now a bit taller than I am - lemon tree on my back patio. That little tree produced a record crop last year - the first lemons typically ripen in December, but one can leave them on the tree for months, until one needs them. That was despite the extreme drought, and my not watering the tree once. Rather, I leave a nice thick layer of natural ground cover (ivy and fallen leaves) around the tree, and I think the roots have grown deep enough under the patio slab that they get plenty of moisture from under that even during the driest summers. If central valley orchards simply let fallen leaves sit and help to restore the natural ground cover over the course of a few years, they could drastically cut evaporative water losses. Whether homeowner or crop grower, it's not that hard to cut one's water usage in half - the key step is to stop being a greedy, nature-destroying moron.

kladner 2015-04-02 15:33

Mulch has all sorts of benefits. Some soils can loose their nutrient value if stripped and baked.

I know I have beaten this drum before, but it seems to me that some of the most massive waste of water comes from open ditch transport and flood irrigation. Where is the push for enclosed transport and drip irrigation?

only_human 2015-06-18 22:02

[URL="http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/06/strange-side-effects-drought-bigfoot-spiders-snakes"]This Drought May Be Having Some Very Weird Side Effects[/URL]
"A kitten boom. Succulent swiping. And, er, Bigfoot?"

Looks like we might need some snake wranglers after all (I'm silently squeaming):
[QUOTE]Growing numbers of poisonous snakes, spiders and scorpions are making their way into homes due to dry conditions. NorCal rattlesnake wrangler Len Ramirez told CBS News that in the last 30 years, he's never been busier—and that he'd removed 72 snakes from Bay Area homes in a single week. The snakes, he said, follow thirsty rodents indoors. Oh, yeah, more rodents, too.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]With lakes and rivers at their lowest levels, there's good news for gold prospectors. Areas that couldn't be accessed before are suddenly open for business to professionals and hobbyists alike. The Guardian and the LA Times have run stories on the drought-spurred boom in interest, and National Geographic reports prospecting equipment sales have grown by up to 25 percent:

[QUOTE]From his office on the leafy campus of nearby California State University, Sacramento, hydrogeologist and geology department chair Tim Horner explained that prospectors like Meyer "have been able to get to places they couldn't before" because the drought has shrunk many of the state's rivers, "some down to a trickle." As an example, Horner mentioned that one of his students recently found about $900 worth of gold in a stream that had previously been too treacherous to explore.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

ewmayer 2015-07-17 01:43

On 15 May I sent the following story link and comment to several friends:

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/15/us-weather-elnino-idUSKBN0NZ1HP20150515]El Niño near-certain to last through summer: U.S. climate center[/url] | Reuters
[quote]Here in CA, it's been a bipolar past half-year: Record rainfall in Dec - completely unlike the past few years - but Jan/Feb were very dry and warm, which led to record low Sierra snowpack and forecasts for a fourth year of drought. But since then, things have been markedly cooler - if not wetter - than for the same period the past few years, which I have taken as a possible hopeful early sign that the drought may be waning. In particular we've had regular inflows of cool unsettled weather from Gulf of Alaska way. Yesterday featured heavy (and highly unusual for this time of year) rainstorms in the south SF bay - but only in the south bay, and then heading east and converting to Tahoe snow. Another cold/rainy system moving in today, but even further south, in SoCal. That seems consistent with the above linked story. We shall see what summer brings.[/quote]


Very nice detailed piece with updated prediction on this today: [url]http://www.weatherwest.com/archives/3277[/url]

That appears to confirm my landlubberly observations.

The downside of a really wet coming winter would be that many of the long-term water-conservation initiatives which have sprung up as a result of the drought would like be kiboshed. I fear the lesson still has not gone on long enough to really sink in (water pun!).

ewmayer 2015-08-04 00:16

[url]http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/08/prolonged-drought-and-wildfires-massive.html[/url]

The 500-unit apt. complex I live in finally switched to xeriscaping and using mulch (I excoriated them on this point in my last resident-comments form-fillout) this summer. Re. the TruthOut bit about water usage for various kinds of nuts, that is [a] misleading because it fails to normalize by 'grams of usable product' (walnuts have more meat than almonds) and [b] fails to note that they all use too much! All this water-wasting-on-agriculture-and-animal-farming ties in with the US obesity epidemic because Americans consume roughly 50% more calories than they need to sustain a healthy 'well-fed' weight. And water for fracking - similarly we use way too much energy. But it's needed to maintain the economist-and-politician-mandated long-term trend of exponential growth of GDP, comrades!

Uncwilly 2015-08-04 03:50

2 words:
Population control

Just like the rent, the population is too *$%@ high.
There are too many people living in areas that don't naturally have enough water. Also, there are too many people in general that require food.

kladner 2015-08-04 03:59

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;407199]2 words:
Population control

Just like the rent, the population is too *$%@ high.
There are too many people living in areas that don't naturally have enough water. Also, there are too many people in general that require food.[/QUOTE]

rAmen! Tell it!

ewmayer 2015-08-04 06:19

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;407199]2 words:
Population control

Just like the rent, the population is too *$%@ high.
There are too many people living in areas that don't naturally have enough water. Also, there are too many people in general that require food.[/QUOTE]

Which do you think is politically more feasible: Killing off (or relocating) X% of the population, or getting an X% reduction in average caloric intake?

Obviously in the long run population control is the sine qua non of addressing all our consumption-related woes - but reducing excess consumption is something we can do *now*.

Problem is, politicians and the corporate interests they serve both are addicted to neverending consumption growth, as well as population growth. So perhaps the only viable solution truly is radical herd-culling - but let's start with our oligarchical misleadership class, I say.

ewmayer 2015-08-14 22:06

[url=http://www.weather.com/news/climate/news/el-nino-forecast-record-strongest-2015-2016]Record Strong El Niño Ahead?[/url] - weather.com

Excellent in-depth summary of the (still-small) historical dataset w.r.to such strong Pacific warm-water anomalies and their impacts (both historical and projected) ranging from the Pacific to the Atlantic hurricane season. Looks like confidence is high that the current one will be strong come winter, the uncertainty pertains to just how strong and how the other weather factors affecting the outcomes play out. Let's hope the West-coast projections have it right - a single wet west coast winter wouldn't end the drought, but it sure would help!

only_human 2015-08-14 22:23

[QUOTE=ewmayer;407966][url=http://www.weather.com/news/climate/news/el-nino-forecast-record-strongest-2015-2016]Record Strong El Niño Ahead?[/url] - weather.com

Excellent in-depth summary of the (still-small) historical dataset w.r.to such strong Pacific warm-water anomalies and their impacts (both historical and projected) ranging from the Pacific to the Atlantic hurricane season. Looks like confidence is high that the current one will be strong come winter, the uncertainty pertains to just how strong and how the other weather factors affecting the outcomes play out. Let's hope the West-coast projections have it right - a single wet west coast winter wouldn't end the drought, but it sure would help![/QUOTE]

There is some concern about Los Angeles' flood control infrastructure:
[URL="http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huge-el-nino-leaves-parts-of-california-vulnerable-to-flooding-20150813-story.html"]With 'Godzilla El Niño' expected, focus shifts to Pasadena dam that could overflow[/URL]
[QUOTE]There is risk of flooding south of the dam — affecting the 110 Freeway, Pasadena, South Pasadena and northeast Los Angeles — if the San Gabriel Mountains are soaked with a series of unrelenting storms and send large amounts of mud, rocks and burned trees into a full basin, officials said.

“If we had multiple major storms with sediment, the reservoirs would fill up and we would have very little capacity for flood control and water capture,” he said.

A 2011 county report painted a grim picture of what would occur if huge rainstorms hit Devil's Gate. Under a worst-case scenario, torrential rains could send mud, rocks and water over the dam and flooding into the Rose Bowl, South Pasadena and northeast Los Angeles in less than 40 minutes.

A subsequent report said the Rose Bowl probably wouldn't be flooded in a single storm but could be at greater risk after a series of storms if sediment isn't quickly removed from areas downstream from the dam.[/QUOTE]

kladner 2015-08-14 23:39

[QUOTE=only_human;398964]
If/when the almond crops end, someone needs to think of the bees:
[URL="http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article15396410.html"]Bees need allies beyond Big Almond[/URL][/QUOTE]

I find it hard to really expect that the poison makers will stop pushing their plant and animal killers. It seems unlikely that enough industrial-scale operations will give up their Roundup Ready®, Systemic insecticide-producing whatevers to make enough of a difference.

Human Population/Societal Collapse may be the only cure for bee colony collapse. I hope enough bees survive to rebuild natural populations.

Uncwilly 2015-08-18 03:35

[QUOTE=only_human;407968]There is some concern about Los Angeles' flood control infrastructure:
[URL="http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huge-el-nino-leaves-parts-of-california-vulnerable-to-flooding-20150813-story.html"]With 'Godzilla El Niño' expected, focus shifts to Pasadena dam that could overflow[/URL][/QUOTE]Several years ago, when a different 'big El Niño' was predicted, I heard about a project that cleared out sediment in a channel. It seems that the guberment heard about it and did something. Sounded like it worked. I have googled the area in the article. It seems like the Feds would want to keep JPL from flooding. Many years ago I went to a World Cup game at the Rose Bowl. Had a chance to look around the area. That dam seems like it as a natural choke point and the the area has steep sides and flat bottom of a large wash or arroyo. The whole Los Angeles seems to be a land of large dams, with little to no water behind them.

ewmayer 2015-08-18 03:46

On the 'continuing drought' front, last 3 days in CA were brutally hot and dusty/smoggy - no A/C in my place (groundfloor, so maybe 10 days/year in a hot year where you'd really want the A/C, not worth it), and I am ragged from lack of sleep. Finally cooling off now, but - in opposition to most folks out East and in the Midwest, I expect - very much looking forward to the shorter Fall days and hoping the wet winter that seems to be brewing out in the Pacific materializes.

kladner 2016-01-10 08:19

What Did the Governor Know About Flint's Water, and When Did He Know It?
 
Michigan has finally declared a state of emergency over[B] [URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/what-did-the-governor-know-about-flints-water-and-when-did-he-know-it/423342/"]the city’s lead poisoning[/URL], [/B]but there are questions about why it’s taken so long to respond.

[QUOTE]In Flint, Michigan, a scandal over lead-tainted water keeps getting darker.

On Tuesday, Governor Rick Snyder [URL="http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/05/us-attorneys-office-investigating-lead-flint-water/78303960/"]declared a state of emergency[/URL] due to lead in the water supply. The same day, the U.S. Department of Justice [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/flint-michigans-poisoned-water-is-under-federal-investigation-following-disastrous-cost-cutting-attempt_568c49d0e4b0a2b6fb6daecf"]announced[/URL] that it is investigating what went wrong in the city. Several top officials have resigned, and

Snyder apologized. But that’s only so comforting for residents. They’re drinking donated water supplies—though those donations are [URL="http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/flint-water-donations-run-dry--no-state-plan-598134339963"]reportedly running dry[/URL]—or using filters. Public schools have been ordered to shut off taps. Residents, and particularly children, are being poisoned by lead, which can cause irreversible brain damage and affect physical health. [URL="http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/07/governor-meet-morning-flint-mayor/78402190/?property=parameter"]It could cost $1.5 billion to fix the problem[/URL], a staggering sum for any city, much less one already struggling as badly as Flint is.

The story is horrifying, on a visceral, “this isn’t supposed to happen here” level. While attention has been slow to focus on Flint, the more that emerges, the worse the story seems. The latest question is when Snyder knew about the problem.[/QUOTE]

only_human 2016-01-10 08:30

[QUOTE=kladner;421763]Michigan has finally declared a state of emergency over[B] [URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/what-did-the-governor-know-about-flints-water-and-when-did-he-know-it/423342/"]the city’s lead poisoning[/URL], [/B]but there are questions about why it’s taken so long to respond.[/QUOTE]
And this is the already financially devastated Flint, Michigan so prominently displayed in Michael Moore's [I]Roger and me[/I]. It seems he could have just sayed in Flint to complete his other works such as [I]Sicko[/I].

kladner 2016-01-10 08:43

[QUOTE=only_human;421765]And this is the already financially devastated Flint, Michigan so prominently displayed in Michael Moore's [I]Roger and me[/I]. It seems he could have just sayed in Flint to complete his other works such as [I]Sicko[/I].[/QUOTE]
Coming soon to a town near you! Get used to it, peons! Clean water is for those with "The Right Stuff" aka Muy Mucho Dinero.

Nick 2016-01-10 09:29

[QUOTE=kladner;421767]Clean water is for those with "The Right Stuff" aka Muy Mucho Dinero.[/QUOTE]
Time to resurrect our water security thread:
[URL]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19695[/URL]

(This post originally stood in the capitalism thread and has been moved.)

only_human 2016-01-10 09:43

Yesterday I read: [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-diego-water-legal-battles_569034d7e4b0a2b6fb7030a7"]Inside Southern California's Long Year Of Water Wars[/URL].

High level hijinks and bureaucratic bungling with water annoy me because it is reckless stewardship of community health and critical infrastructure. Money shenanigans always seem to be a big part too.

More will follow when I read up enough to highlight and summarize.

kladner 2016-01-10 16:14

[QUOTE=Nick;421772]Time to resurrect our water security thread:
[URL]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19695[/URL]

(This post originally stood in the capitalism thread and has been moved.)[/QUOTE]

You had me quite confused, there. I have actually been searching to see if I had posted another piece on this story, this one, aptly enough, by Michael Moore. If the following is a repeat, my apologies. I do note that this story would fit easily in the capitalism thread, as well.

[URL="http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/34477-dear-gov-snyder-you-have-to-go-to-jail"]Dear Gov. Snyder: You Have to Go to Jail[/URL]

Dear Governor Snyder: Thanks to you, sir, and the premeditated actions of your administrators, [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/flint-michigans-poisoned-water-is-under-federal-investigation-following-disastrous-cost-cutting-attempt_568c49d0e4b0a2b6fb6daecf"]you have effectively poisoned[/URL], not just some, but apparently ALL of the children in my hometown of Flint, Michigan.
And for that, you have to go to jail.
To poison all the children in an historic American city is no small feat. Even international terrorist organizations haven't figured out yet how to do something on a magnitude like this.

only_human 2016-01-10 16:36

[QUOTE=kladner;421803]You had me quite confused, there. I have actually been searching to see if I had posted another piece on this story, this one, aptly enough, by Michael Moore. If the following is a repeat, my apologies. I do note that this story would fit easily in the capitalism thread, as well.
[/QUOTE]
It's not a repeat as far as I know. I haven't read the article yet but am onboard with the outrage.

Sorry about the post movements.

kladner 2016-01-11 17:16

How The Bundy Standoff Could Screw Over Ranchers
 
[URL="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/11/3737719/rancher-history-oregon/"]A broader view of the issues in Oregon[/URL]

[QUOTE]The dry prairies of Southeast Oregon have been the backdrop for land disputes for centuries — long before armed men decided to set up shop in Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, demanding land sovereignty and snacks.

Anti-government militiamen have [URL="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/03/3735647/malheur-lake-oregon-militia-explainer/"]occupied the refuge’s headquarters[/URL] since last week in response to sentences leveled against two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond, for intentionally setting fires on federal land. Led by the sons of [URL="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/05/3735967/cliven-bundys-war-recap/"]Cliven Bundy[/URL], a Nevada rancher with a history of federal standoffs, the group occupying the refuge is also calling for a broader federal surrender of land they believe belongs to ranchers.

But the dramatic move, which claims to protect ranchers’ livelihoods, actually threatens the fragile ecosystem of a community that has been working to carefully balance the competing interests in the land. And the people of Harney County have grown weary of the fighting.
[/QUOTE]

LaurV 2016-01-12 03:49

Oh, so silly these guys!
I was reading this from the beginning, but didn't realize the guy's name is Bundy, is he relative of Al Bundy? :razz:

ewmayer 2016-01-16 04:49

[url=www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKCN0US31420160115]Oregon occupiers ask public for supplies: get glitter, sex toys[/url] | Reuters

Best headline I saw about this is from [url=http://gawker.com/angry-militia-leader-stop-mailing-us-dildos-1752580458]Gawker[/url]: “Angry Militia Leader: Stop Mailing Us Dildos.”

only_human 2016-05-29 03:14

[URL="http://lompocrecord.com/news/opinion/editorial/when-the-big-lake-runs-dry/article_f8253a41-2603-52d9-9ce6-e0e69c08cdd0.html"]When the big lake runs dry[/URL]
[QUOTE]These are anxious moments for South Coast and Santa Ynez Valley water customers. Santa Barbara County officials recently made a grim prediction about Lake Cachuma’s future. It looks dry.

In fact, if water experts are correct, the lake level will reach a historic low point sometime in July, and be effectively dry as a bone by the end of the year.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The reality of a drying Lake Cachuma, coupled with the admission by county water managers that the reservoir is all but finished, for now, compelled us to search the internet to answer the following question: What happens when Lake Cachuma runs dry, and cannot supply water to tens of thousands of people?

It didn’t come as a complete surprise that we found no reasonable answer. Regional experts have been pondering the same question for generations, and the only answer that made sense was, we need more rain.

But what if we don’t get more rain? What if this going-on-five-year drought drags on to become a 10-year drought, or maybe a 50 or 100-year mega-drought? We all know that in California, anything’s possible.

Still, folks on the Central Coast need an answer to that question of supply. Without a realistic, reliable water supply we can envision of veritable dust bowl, a place where million-dollar homes become virtually worthless.

It’s a vision of staggering, mind-numbing ugliness. A Central Coast resident’s worst nightmare, especially for those who own a home here.[/QUOTE]

only_human 2016-05-29 08:55

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-water-california_us_574910e0e4b03ede4414f435"]Donald Trump Tells Drought-Plagued Californians: ‘There Is No Drought’[/URL]
“If I win, believe me, we’re going to start opening up the water.”

kladner 2016-06-01 16:09

[QUOTE=only_human;435044][URL="http://lompocrecord.com/news/opinion/editorial/when-the-big-lake-runs-dry/article_f8253a41-2603-52d9-9ce6-e0e69c08cdd0.html"]When the big lake runs dry[/URL][/QUOTE]
One of the possible mitigating factors, which I don't see mentioned very often, is the capture of urban runoff. I remember being in Oakland and seeing signs by storm drains which warned that the water goes straight into the Bay. The warning is that catchments should not have leaves and other solids swept into them. It seems that there must be at least some pipes which combine the runoff on its way to the Bay. What might it take to divert this water to a treatment plant?

only_human 2016-06-01 16:25

[QUOTE=kladner;435297]One of the possible mitigating factors, which I don't see mentioned very often, is the capture of urban runoff. I remember being in Oakland and seeing signs by storm drains which warned that the water goes straight into the Bay. The warning is that catchments should not have leaves and other solids swept into them. It seems that there must be at least some pipes which combine the runoff on its way to the Bay. What might it take to divert this water to a treatment plant?[/QUOTE]
The treatment plant issue seems to be iffy. This article does show a "greenway" on the LA river to "enhance the natural process to clean polluted water."

There does to be a lot of interest and even money spent for capturing urban storm water.
[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/us/storm-water-long-a-nuisance-may-be-a-parched-californias-salvation.html"]Storm Water, Long a Nuisance, May Be a Parched California’s Salvation[/URL]
[QUOTE]This shift in approach will not be easy. The State Water Resources Control Board had earlier authorized spending $200 million on an array of projects devoted to capturing storm water. But officials said it would cost more than $1 billion for the kind of ambitious water-collection goals set by Los Angeles, San Diego and the San Francisco Bay Area.[/QUOTE]

kladner 2016-06-01 17:29

Thanks for the storm water article, Ross. I hope people press ahead with the projects.

Uncwilly 2016-06-01 18:30

[QUOTE=only_human;435044][URL="http://lompocrecord.com/news/opinion/editorial/when-the-big-lake-runs-dry/article_f8253a41-2603-52d9-9ce6-e0e69c08cdd0.html"]When the big lake runs dry[/URL][/QUOTE]There is a much larger lake that ran dry before (in the rough area) [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake[/url]
[QUOTE=kladner;435297]One of the possible mitigating factors, which I don't see mentioned very often, is the capture of urban runoff. I remember being in Oakland and seeing signs by storm drains which warned that the water goes straight into the Bay. The warning is that catchments should not have leaves and other solids swept into them. It seems that there must be at least some pipes which combine the runoff on its way to the Bay. What might it take to divert this water to a treatment plant?[/QUOTE]
There are 2 issues here: 1) Capture of run-off for use. 2) Items in the water going to the bay, ocean, creak, river, etc.

For capture see below.

The idea of the signs "Drains to Bay", is not only about leaves and solids that will clog the system, but as important is the prevention of various other pollutants. Keeping oil, pesticides, fertilizers, other chemicals, fast food wrappers, six-pack rings, etc. out of the storm water is important. That is the reason behind the signs.[QUOTE=only_human;435300]The treatment plant issue seems to be iffy. This article does show a "greenway" on the LA river to "enhance the natural process to clean polluted water."

There does to be a lot of interest and even money spent for capturing urban storm water.
[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/us/storm-water-long-a-nuisance-may-be-a-parched-californias-salvation.html"]Storm Water, Long a Nuisance, May Be a Parched California’s Salvation[/URL][/QUOTE]In coastal areas, like Los Angeles, sending stormwater to the sanitary sewer for treatment is generally not done. That does not lead to capturing it for use (it can if the treatment plant is a water reclamation plant, but stormwater needs much less treatment than sewage). Generally it must be captured in rain barrels or cisterns, or it must be infiltrated for groundwater recharge.

The greenways and other projects are used for that. Here are a few links that show more:
[url]http://www.lastormwater.org/blog/category/green-streets/[/url]
[url]http://www.lastormwater.org/blog/2016/06/city-officials-unveil-new-stormwater-recapture-project-on-broadway-corridor/[/url]
[url]http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/home_blog/2010/07/elmer-avenue-sun-valley.html[/url]
[url]https://lacreekfreak.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/woodman-avenue-bicycles-and-fish/[/url]

The projects in Los Angeles are multifaceted / multibenefit. They capture stormwater, they beautify, they often help with flooding, and they help clean-up the Los Angeles River, restoring it to a living river.

kladner 2016-06-02 05:07

Thanks, Uncwilly. I greatly appreciate the hearing from a knowledgeable person who is on the scene. Thanks for the links, as well.

I had not thought about all the really terrible things that ignorant or uncaring people might dump in a storm drain.

BTW: Have alterations in the LA River aroused any colonies of [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!"]giant ants[/URL]?

only_human 2016-06-03 04:18

[QUOTE=kladner;435351]
BTW: Have alterations in the LA River aroused any colonies of [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!"]giant ants[/URL]?[/QUOTE]
I just learned that a cheesy scream also used in the movie [I]Them![/I] is called a Wilhelm scream and is in many popular movies including Star Wars.

[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_scream[/url] (includes sound clip)

[url]http://www.hollywoodlostandfound.net/wilhelm/index.html[/url]

only_human 2016-07-24 05:20

deep doodoo
 
[URL="https://www.newsdeeply.com/water/articles/2016/07/15/california-eyes-recycling-wastewater-for-drinking"]California Eyes Recycling Wastewater for Drinking[/URL]
[QUOTE]But now the State Water Resources Control Board, prompted by the legislature, has tasked a panel of experts with determining whether it is feasible to develop criteria for direct potable reuse (DPR) – where wastewater is treated for drinking and then piped directly to customers without first being mixed in a reservoir or groundwater aquifer.

The panel is set to deliver its report later this month, as is a group of stakeholders. Then staff from the Water Board’s Division of Drinking Water will use those two reports to develop their own recommendations on the feasibility of DPR criteria by September 1. After a 45-day comment period a finalized report will be submitted before the end of the year. If, as is most likely, the final report does find that the criteria are feasible, the Division of Drinking Water will begin work on developing the appropriate regulations for direct potable reuse.[/QUOTE]

Nick 2017-04-17 17:13

Receding glacier causes immense river to vanish in 4 days
 
[QUOTE]
For hundreds of years, the Slims carried meltwater northwards from the vast Kaskawulsh glacier in Canada’s Yukon territory into the Kluane river, then into the Yukon river towards the Bering Sea. But in spring 2016, a period of intense melting of the glacier meant the drainage gradient was tipped in favour of a second river, redirecting the meltwater to the Gulf of Alaska, thousands of miles from its original destination.
[/QUOTE]Press article: [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/17/receding-glacier-causes-immense-canadian-river-to-vanish-in-four-days-climate-change[/URL]


[QUOTE]
Prof Lonnie Thompson, a paleoclimatologist at Ohio State University who was not involved in the work, said the observations highlight how incremental temperature increases can produce sudden and drastic environmental impacts. “There are definitely thresholds which, once passed in nature, everything abruptly changes,” he said.
[/QUOTE]René Thom would have loved that.

xilman 2017-04-17 17:34

[QUOTE=Nick;456914]René Thom would have loved that.[/QUOTE]Catastrophic in deed.

Nick 2017-07-25 06:38

Two capital cities with water rationing
 
"Rome hit by water rationing as Italy struggles with drought"
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40704408[/URL]

Kenya: "After months of water rationing, Nairobi may run dry"
[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/jul/24/thirsty-city-after-months-of-water-rationing-nairobi-may-run-dry[/URL]

Nick 2018-01-18 16:17

[QUOTE]
The South African city of Cape Town will slash residents' water allowance to 50 litres a day from next month amid fears that it could become the world's first major city to run out of water.
[/QUOTE](Note the word "first".)
Press article: [URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42731084[/URL]

Nick 2018-02-07 08:14

[QUOTE]
The South African city of Cape Town, home to more than four million people, is set to run out of water in a matter of weeks. It is a crisis that threatens to be repeated globally.
[/QUOTE]Article from the University of Melbourne:
[URL="https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/how-to-prevent-cities-from-drying-up"]How to prevent cities from drying up[/URL]

xilman 2018-02-07 10:51

[QUOTE=Nick;479506]Article from the University of Melbourne:
[URL="https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/how-to-prevent-cities-from-drying-up"]How to prevent cities from drying up[/URL][/QUOTE]Build them on the Rhine or the Seine?

kladner 2018-02-07 12:31

[QUOTE=xilman;479516]Build them on the Rhine or the Seine?[/QUOTE]
The Colorado is giving out, too. Who knows how long other large rivers will hold up?

xilman 2018-02-07 13:16

[QUOTE=kladner;479521]The Colorado is giving out, too. Who knows how long other large rivers will hold up?[/QUOTE]The pair I suggested are notorious for flooding major cities on their banks whenever there's a bit of rain. Paris was distinctly soggy a week or two ago when the water level reached something like 5 metres above normal

Dr Sardonicus 2018-02-07 15:02

One river to keep your eyes on is the mighty Mississippi. It has been greatly altered by works of man -- extensively dammed in the north to extend its navigability, and leveed in the south. The northern dams have succeeded in moving the "head of navigation" from Saint Louis, MO to Saint Paul, MN. But, in the process, they have sequestered huge amounts of silt that would otherwise head south. The levees keep the silt in the river's southern reaches channeled, rather than spreading out as it would do naturally. So, instead of building land in the delta, the silt is being shot out into the Gulf of Mexico.

Meanwhile, around Simmesport, LA, are the "Old River Control Structures." Their function is to prevent the Mississippi from being captured by the Atchafalaya and thereby changing course as it would do naturally, an event which would leave the current stretch of Mississippi River downstream from that point as nothing more than a tidal creek. That stretch, besides allowing New Orleans to function as a port, also contains a huge number of oil refineries and chemical plants, sometimes called the "American Ruhr."

kladner 2018-02-08 03:27

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;479530]One river to keep your eyes on is the mighty Mississippi.That stretch, besides allowing New Orleans to function as a port, also contains a huge number of oil refineries and chemical plants, sometimes called the "American Ruhr."[/QUOTE]
.....or [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley"]Cancer Alley[/URL]. :ick:

Nick 2018-08-03 10:10

Meanwhile, in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia (Trail of the Lonesome Pine, anyone?)
[QUOTE]Evacuation orders have been issued in parts of Lynchburg, Virginia, over fears a dam may fail amid flooding.[/QUOTE]Press article:[URL="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45054961"] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45054961[/URL]

xilman 2018-08-03 17:16

[QUOTE=Nick;493048]Meanwhile, in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia (Trail of the Lonesome Pine, anyone?)
Press article:[URL="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45054961"] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45054961[/URL][/QUOTE]On the Trail of the Loathsome Slime is the version I prefer.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-01-12 20:38

Al Qaeda's fanatical religious ideologues dreamed of poisoning whole city water supplies in the USA. They couldn't do it.

Republican ideologues right here in the good ol' USA achieved what foreign terrorists could not. And ruined the whole distribution system to boot.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/Flint-lead-water-crisis-gov-rick-snyder-801ba227340f0ac2e10e37a06a82f08d]Michigan plans to charge ex-Gov. Snyder in Flint water probe[/url][quote]Snyder, a Republican who has been out of office for two years, was governor when state-appointed managers in Flint switched the city's water to the Flint River in 2014 as a cost-saving step while a pipeline was being built to Lake Huron. The water, however, was not treated to reduce corrosion - a disastrous decision affirmed by state regulators that caused lead to leach from old pipes and spoil the distribution system used by nearly 100,000 residents.[/quote][color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

tServo 2021-01-12 21:02

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;569107]Al Qaeda's fanatical religious ideologues dreamed of poisoning whole city water supplies in the USA. They couldn't do it.

Republican ideologues right here in the good ol' USA achieved what foreign terrorists could not. And ruined the whole distribution system to boot.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/Flint-lead-water-crisis-gov-rick-snyder-801ba227340f0ac2e10e37a06a82f08d]Michigan plans to charge ex-Gov. Snyder in Flint water probe[/url][/QUOTE]

Most people have heard about the lead poisoning, but as your linked article points out and the one I have below, Legionnaire's was a big killer. NPR counts at least 70 deaths ( probably more ) while the state only reported 12. This was also caused by the poorly treated water.

[URL="https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interactive/how-we-found-dozens-of-uncounted-deaths-during-flint-water-crisis/"]https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interactive/how-we-found-dozens-of-uncounted-deaths-during-flint-water-crisis/[/URL].

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

storm5510 2021-01-12 23:40

[QUOTE=tServo;569112]Most people have heard about the lead poisoning, but as your linked article points out and the one I have below, Legionnaire's was a big killer. NPR counts at least 70 deaths ( probably more ) while the state only reported 12. This was also caused by the poorly treated water[/QUOTE]

I watched a documentary on Netflix a while back called "Poisoned Water." All of this because the powers-that-be in Flint wanted to save a few pennies. After the problem started, city officials went into denial mode.

The first time I heard the term "Legionnaire's Disease" was back in the 1970's. It was found in a large cooling system for a hotel in Bloomington, Indiana. Several died, but not as many as in Flint. I did not know about this aspect of the problems in Flint until I read the quoted section above. The documentary does not mention it.

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

Dr Sardonicus 2021-01-13 00:08

[QUOTE=tServo;569112]Most people have heard about the lead poisoning, but as your linked article points out and the one I have below, Legionnaire's was a big killer. NPR counts at least 70 deaths ( probably more ) while the state only reported 12. This was also caused by the poorly treated water.

[URL="https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interactive/how-we-found-dozens-of-uncounted-deaths-during-flint-water-crisis/"]https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interactive/how-we-found-dozens-of-uncounted-deaths-during-flint-water-crisis/[/URL][/QUOTE]That's a good point.

Make that [i]two[/i] things Republican ideologues achieved that Al Qaeda could not - poisoning an entire city water supply, [i]and[/i] causing an outbreak of a deadly disease, right here in the good ol' USA.

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

storm5510 2021-01-15 00:02

[URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-former-michigan-officials-criminally-charged-along-ex-governor-flint-n1254286?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3733stXYGrd8-vui1we8ag6jxGZsN3LuL0L3_HQSGFMTkxVxuZSbHm9ig"]Ex-governor, 8 other former Michigan officials charged in Flint water crisis.[/URL]

Criminally charged it says. About time!

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

Dr Sardonicus 2021-01-15 12:46

[QUOTE=storm5510;569310][URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-former-michigan-officials-criminally-charged-along-ex-governor-flint-n1254286?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3733stXYGrd8-vui1we8ag6jxGZsN3LuL0L3_HQSGFMTkxVxuZSbHm9ig"]Ex-governor, 8 other former Michigan officials charged in Flint water crisis.[/URL]

Criminally charged it says. About time![/QUOTE]Two counts of willful neglect of duty. It's only a misdemeanor. The maximum penalty for each count is one year in prison and a thousand dollar fine. I guess we should take what we can get.

If a foreign government had done what the Governor of Michigan and his cohorts did - poisoned an entire city water supply and ruined the distribution system, leading to an outbreak of a deadly disease - the United States would have declared war.

He's pleaded Not Guilty. That's what's known as "adding insult to injury."

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

Nick 2021-01-15 13:19

[QUOTE=storm5510;569310][URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-former-michigan-officials-criminally-charged-along-ex-governor-flint-n1254286?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3733stXYGrd8-vui1we8ag6jxGZsN3LuL0L3_HQSGFMTkxVxuZSbHm9ig"]Ex-governor, 8 other former Michigan officials charged in Flint water crisis.[/URL]

Criminally charged it says. About time![/QUOTE]
There's a [URL="https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19695"]thread[/URL] for that!

[color=red][b][size=4]MODERATOR NOTE:[/size] Aye-aye! Posts moved from "terrorists" thread[/b][/color]

Nick 2021-06-11 08:13

Lake Mead: Largest US reservoir dips to record low
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57436860[/URL]

tServo 2021-06-11 12:28

[QUOTE=Nick;580657]Lake Mead: Largest US reservoir dips to record low
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57436860[/URL][/QUOTE]

As are most of the reservoirs out West. The piper's bill is coming due for a century of massive unregulated growth.
For the history of this madness see the definitive book "Cadillac Desert" :
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert[/URL]

If you only want to spend a couple of entertaining hours, you should watch the most excellent film "Chinatown" starring Faye Dunaway and. Jack Nicholson. Also, John Houston plays a William Mulholland type figure.

I can't believe there are plans underway to build a couple of huge silicon fab plants in Arizona, of all places. What will they do when those multi billion dollar facilities stand empty due to no water.

Uncwilly 2021-06-11 13:51

[QUOTE=Nick;580657]Lake Mead: Largest US reservoir dips to record low
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57436860[/URL][/QUOTE]That is only sort of news. The levels have been going down for a long time. When the Hoover Dam was built the Western US was in an abnormal wet period. So the levels of water entering and exiting were unusual and should not have been considered the norm long term. That was the period where Los Angeles was getting destructive flooding of its river frequently.
Los Angeles has realised that they can't rely on external water completely forever. At one point in the 1990's or so it got 15% of its water from inside its borders. And now it is looking at harvesting all of its wastewater to change that. [url]https://www.nrdc.org/experts/tracy-quinn/city-angeles-announces-bold-recycled-water-plan[/url]
The efficiency of water use in the are and the usage of reclaimed water in the area is high and getting higher.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-06-12 15:37

[QUOTE=tServo;580665]<snip>
I can't believe there are plans underway to build a couple of huge silicon fab plants in Arizona, of all places. What will they do when those multi billion dollar facilities stand empty due to no water.[/QUOTE]IMO Intel is more likely to leave if/when their tax [strike]parasitism[/strike] incentive provisions become less attractive. For example, they're getting an 80% discount on their property taxes.

xilman 2021-06-12 16:55

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;580798]IMO Intel is more likely to leave if/when their tax [strike]parasitism[/strike] incentive provisions become less attractive. For example, they're getting an 80% discount on their property taxes.[/QUOTE]AKA The Golden Rule.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

MooMoo2 2021-07-23 19:10

[QUOTE=Nick;580657]Lake Mead: Largest US reservoir dips to record low
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57436860[/URL][/QUOTE]
Lake Mead has dropped another ~4 feet since that time. A few hundred miles upstream, Lake Powell (only a tiny bit smaller than Lake Mead) is expected to hit an all-time low within the next two days: [url]https://lakepowell.water-data.com/[/url]

Down and down, and down it goes, and where it stops, nobody knows...

Uncwilly 2021-07-23 20:02

"Record low" for those to lakes are being reported falsely. The first day that the water was allowed to build behind the dams was the record low.

But, did you expect it to go up during NHS (northern Hemisphere Summer)? Why do you think that cities are making long term major plans for water like Los Angeles did in the 190x's? At that time voters agreed to a bonds that were larger than the value of the City government's holdings. [url]https://waterandpower.org/museum/Construction_of_the_LA_Aqueduct.html[/url]

MooMoo2 2021-07-23 20:19

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;583841]"Record low" for those to lakes are being reported falsely. The first day that the water was allowed to build behind the dams was the record low.[/quote]
Yeah, it should have been "record low since the dam reached capacity". Kind of like how M51 is not the largest prime; just the largest known prime.

[quote]
But, did you expect it to go up during NHS (northern Hemisphere Summer)? [/QUOTE]
I thought that Mead's decline would stop (monsoon runoff).

Edit: just looked up the averages for Powell. It typically reaches a low for the year in mid-April, just before most of the snowpack in the Rockies starts melting. The yearly high is usually in early July, after most of the melting is complete. So there's quite a large drop left before Powell starts rising again.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-08-17 03:14

[url=https://apnews.com/article/business-health-environment-and-nature-climate-change-89ff76829e3a3c7ed514320e9a40df8f]Western states face first federal water cuts[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. officials on Monday declared the first-ever water shortage from a river that serves 40 million people in the West, triggering cuts to some Arizona farmers next year amid a gripping drought.
<snip>
States, cities, farmers and others have diversified their water sources over the years, helping soften the blow of the upcoming cuts. But federal officials said Monday's declaration makes clear that conditions have intensified faster than scientists predicted in 2019, when some states in the Colorado River basin agreed to give up shares of water to maintain levels at Lake Mead.

"The announcement today is a recognition that the hydrology that was planned for years ago - but we hoped we would never see — is here," said Bureau of Reclamation Commissioner Camille Touton.
<snip>
Water stored in Lake Mead and Lake Powell is divvied up through legal agreements among the seven Colorado River basin states, the federal government, Mexico and others. The agreements determine how much water each gets, when cuts are triggered and the order in which the parties have to sacrifice some of their supply.

Under a 2019 drought contingency plan, Arizona, Nevada, California and Mexico agreed to give up shares of their water to maintain water levels at Lake Mead. The voluntary measures weren't enough to prevent the shortage declaration.
<snip>
In the U.S., Arizona will be hardest hit and lose 18% of its share from the river next year, or 512,000 acre-feet of water. That's around 8% of the state's total water use.

An acre-foot is enough water to supply one to two households a year.[sup]†[/sup]
<snip>
Farmers in central Arizona, who are among the state's largest producers of livestock, dairy, alfalfa, wheat and barley, will bear the brunt of the cuts. Their allocation comes from water deemed "extra" by the agency that supplies water to much of the region, making them the first to lose it during a shortage.
<snip>[/quote]
[sup]†[/sup]This statement got my attention. An acre-foot is 43560 cubic feet, which is 325851.429 gallons. Dividing by 365, we find that an acre-foot per year is a bit over 892 gallons per day, or around 27154 gallons a month. Half that would be just over 446 gallons per day, or 13577 gallons per month.

kriesel 2021-08-17 03:58

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;585820]This statement got my attention. An acre-foot is 43560 cubic feet, which is 325851.429 gallons. Dividing by 365, we find that an acre-foot per year is a bit over 892 gallons per day, or around 27154 gallons a month. Half that would be just over 446 gallons per day, or 13577 gallons per month.[/QUOTE]An acre-foot is about equal to what falls on my home's lot annually. I'm sure I'm using far less than that. [URL]https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php[/URL]

Further populating the drier US states with more millions annually crossing the border out of control isn't helping though.

S485122 2021-08-17 06:55

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;585820][quote]An acre-foot is enough water to supply one to two households a year.[/quote]
[sup]†[/sup]This statement got my attention. An acre-foot is 43560 cubic feet, which is 325851.429 gallons. Dividing by 365, we find that an acre-foot per year is a bit over 892 gallons per day, or around 27154 gallons a month. Half that would be just over 446 gallons per day, or 13577 gallons per month.[/QUOTE]Translating to metric units an acre-foot is a bit more than 1223 m[sup]3[/sup] (cubic metres). With an USA average household size of about 2,5, this means a bit more than 1,3 m[sup]3[/sup] or 1352 litres per day per person (about 357 US gallons a day per person). Or half if one "acre-foot" is enough for 2 households.
Would that quantity include the water usage for agricultural needs ? It seems rather high. If it does include agricultural needs, that statement is not very enlightening : household seems to point to water used in a house an its garden (plus the water used outside the home for personal use.)

Xyzzy 2021-08-17 11:37

According to our water bill, we use a little under 100 gallons a day. (Or ~33 gallons per person per day.)

So that figure probably includes other things.

:mike:

Dr Sardonicus 2021-08-17 12:27

It's hard for me to imagine using anywhere near 446 gallons of water per day apart from (a) having a significant leak on my side of the meter or (b) doing a [i]lot[/i] of lawn and garden watering. For Arizona residents I would guess (b) is a major factor. It seems very wasteful to me, going to the effort and expense of processing large amounts of water to make it safe for people to drink, and then dumping it on the ground so that Kentucky bluegrass and other ornamental plants requiring lots of water will grow in arid or semi-arid regions.

One other thing that came to mind was residential swimming pools. They can lose a lot of water by evaporation. If a 400 square foot pool loses 2 inches per week by evaporation, that's an average of a bit over 71 gallons per day.

kriesel 2021-08-17 13:15

It may be a per household share of all usage in the state; residential, agricultural, commercial, industrial, utility, government, ...
Per the USGS page, [URL]https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/total-water-use[/URL] the 3 biggest categories are "thermoelectric power", irrigation, and public supply. (Per [URL]https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/thermoelectric-power-water-use?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects[/URL] by "thermoelectric power" they mean fossil-fuel, nuclear, or geothermal electrical generation there; effectively, not wind solar or hydro)

Uncwilly 2021-08-17 13:28

Ken is right. Your usage includes the usages you cause. A single (non-cotton) T-shirt can use more than 250 litres to produce (1500 if it is cotton). Those cotton denim jeans that you wear are a huge water suck, 1800 gallons ([URL="https://www.oldhamcountywater.com/interesting-water-facts.html#:~:text=About%201%2C800%20gallons%20of%20water,average%20domestic%20auto%2C%20including%20tires."]source[/URL]). This is [U][I]just part[/I][/U] of the reason that textile reuse and recycling is very important.

Since Ken edited, I have to edit. "thermoelectric power" water usage is all of that water that gets evaporated to cool things off. The great smooth curved structures that people associate with nuke power are giant evaporative coolers. Power and water are very linked, using one causes usage of the other and vice versa.

xilman 2021-08-17 14:05

[QUOTE=S485122;585838]Translating to metric units an acre-foot is a bit more than 1223 m[sup]3[/sup] (cubic metres).[/QUOTE]Thanks. Much more comprehensible to the vast majority of the world's population.

It is also ~1223 tonnes.

Prime95 2021-08-17 14:10

[QUOTE=xilman;585874]Thanks. Much more comprehensible to the vast majority of the world's population.

It is also ~1223 tonnes.[/QUOTE]

What is this "tonne" you speak of?

Dr Sardonicus 2021-08-17 14:23

[QUOTE=Prime95;585876]What is this "tonne" you speak of?[/QUOTE]One can reasonably infer from the given figures alone that a tonne is a "metric ton" or 1000 kilograms: A cubic centimeter of water is very nearly a gram, so a cubic meter of water is very nearly 100[sup]3[/sup] grams or 1000 kilograms.

Looking up the definition confirms this, so I'm not giving you a bum stere.

S485122 2021-08-17 14:33

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;585869]Ken is right. Your usage includes the usages you cause. A single (non-cotton) T-shirt can use more than 250 litres to produce (1500 if it is cotton).
...[/QUOTE]I agree, but it is a different statistic : much of the cotton, meat and other agricultural goods are produced in other parts of the world (the USA cotton production is less than 20% of the world production.) Depending on what one wants to illustrate the consumption of "foreign" water should be counted or not.

One big problem regarding water management is the growing of some crops in regions that are not optimal, implying a lot of irrigation (maize and almonds water needs have had some nasty by-effects that have become prominent in recent news.)

Another problem is the usage of water for export goods like vegetables and flowers, it causes enormous problems for the population in the Kilimanjaro region of Kenya for instance. Building ice rings and indoor ski slopes in the Arabian peninsula is another example. But I digress (as usual.)

S485122 2021-08-17 14:36

[QUOTE=Prime95;585876]What is this "tonne" you speak of?[/QUOTE]Is is an alternate "spelling" of "metric ton" according to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne]Wikipedia[/url] for instance. But I suppose the question was more or less rethorical [noparse];-)[/noparse]

Dr Sardonicus 2021-08-17 15:40

[QUOTE=kriesel;585866]It may be a per household share of all usage in the state; residential, agricultural, commercial, industrial, utility, government, ...
Per the USGS page, [URL]https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/total-water-use[/URL] the 3 biggest categories are "thermoelectric power", irrigation, and public supply. (Per [URL]https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/thermoelectric-power-water-use?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects[/URL] by "thermoelectric power" they mean fossil-fuel, nuclear, or geothermal electrical generation there; effectively, not wind solar or hydro)[/QUOTE]We start by looking at the USGS [url=https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/domestic-water-use?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects]Domestic Water Use[/url] figures for Arizona in 2015:[quote]Domestic water use includes indoor and outdoor uses at residences, and includes uses such as drinking, food preparation, bathing, washing clothes and dishes, flushing toilets, watering lawns and gardens, and maintaining pools. Domestic water use includes potable and non-potable water provided to households by a public water supplier (domestic deliveries) and self-supplied water use. Self-supplied domestic water use is typically withdrawn from a private source, such as a well, or captured as rainwater in a cistern.[/quote]The number is 501 to 1000 million gallons per day. Dividing by the number of Arizona households in 2015 (roughly 2.5 million) gives roughly 200 to 400 gallons per household per day.

We move on to [url=https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/public-supply-water-use?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects]Public Water Supply Use[/url]: [quote]Public supply refers to water withdrawn by public and private water suppliers that provide water to at least 25 people or have a minimum of 15 connections. Public-supply water is delivered to users for domestic, commercial, and industrial purposes. Part of the total is used for public services, such as public pools, parks, firefighting, water and wastewater treatment, and municipal buildings, and some is unaccounted for because of leaks, flushing, tower maintenance, and other system losses. Domestic deliveries represent the largest single component of public-supply withdrawals.[/quote]The figures for Arizona are 1001-2000 million gallons per day in 2015. Dividing by 2.5 million gives roughly 400 to 800 gallons per day per household. That's in the same ball park as the figure from the AP article.

Looking at [url=https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/total-water-use?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects]Total Water Use[/url] shows 10,001 to 20,000 million gallons per day in Arizona in 2015, or ten times the "Public use" figure and 20 times the "Domestic use" figure.

xilman 2021-08-17 16:02

[QUOTE=Prime95;585876]What is this "tonne" you speak of?[/QUOTE]

ITYM 'What is this "tonne" of which you speak?'
HTH
HAND
TTFN

Dr Sardonicus 2021-08-17 17:01

[QUOTE=S485122;585879]<snip>
One big problem regarding water management is the growing of some crops in regions that are not optimal, implying a lot of irrigation (maize and almonds water needs have had some nasty by-effects that have become prominent in recent news.)
<snip>[/QUOTE][url=https://apnews.com/article/business-environment-and-nature-california-droughts-climate-change-e57861c8f2358525869d2f0d012b96d3]California drought takes toll on world’s top almond producer[/url][quote]<snip>
A historic drought across the U.S. West is taking a heavy toll on California's $6 billion almond industry, which produces roughly 80% of the world's almonds. More growers are expected to abandon their orchards as water becomes scarce and expensive.

It's a sharp reversal for the almond's relentless expansion in California's agricultural Central Valley, whose dry Mediterranean-like climate and reliable irrigation system made it the perfect location to grow the increasingly popular nut.
<snip>
The almond boom has run into the second major drought that California has declared in a decade. The U.S. Drought Monitor reported that 88% of the state was in "extreme drought" as of last week, with the Central Valley facing the worst conditions.

The drought has drained reservoirs that supply water to Central Valley farms. In early August, Shasta Lake, the state's largest, was only 30% full, while Lake Oroville, the second largest, was only 24% full, according to the California Department of Water Resources.
<snip>[/quote][b]Note:[/b] There is one category of drought worse than "Extreme," namely "Exceptional."


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