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-   -   Cost of electricity -- compute for heat only (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27158)

paulunderwood 2021-09-24 10:26

Cost of electricity -- compute for heat only
 
Here in the UK our electricity prices are about to go up by some 66% to in excess of £0,25 per kilowatt hour (plus £0.25 a day for the standing charge). This is a huge increase and is forcing me to run my computers as heaters only. This is not necessarily a bad thing -- I need air conditioning for 4 months during the summer as well.

What is it like in the rest of Europe? The USA? The World?

pinhodecarlos 2021-09-24 10:33

Way to save is to stop all your computers, shutdown AC, you don’t need it.
Gas price is also raising to match electricity (descarbonisation).

Edit: BTW, we left Europe, this island is going north…lol

kriesel 2021-09-24 10:47

US by-state incremental US$/KWHR figures vary widely, from under $0.10 Idaho to over $0.327 Hawaii.
Change over a year from -5% Idaho to +20% Louisiana.
0.25GBP/kwhr x1.37 = US$0.3425/kwhr, slightly higher than Hawaii.
I'm in Wisconsin, paying 2 different rates, both of which are below Wisconsin's indicated average and don't change much. Rate applicable to my GIMPS use is ~US$0.114/kwhr and hasn't changed in over a year. So, ~0.333 of Paul's coming rate. (~0.11% below 1/3 if his stated 0.25 was exact) That utility's generation is ~40+% fission and renewables, ~32% gas and ~23% coal currently.
[URL]https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/[/URL]

For global comparison there are many sources including [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing[/URL]

kruoli 2021-09-24 12:06

Just [URL="http://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/wirtschaft/energie-strompreis-steigt-100.html"]in the news[/URL]: Germany's average electricity costs are 0.3054 € per kWh (around 0.3578 $/kWh). I'm not sure if this includes industrial customers. Either way, it's lots.

De Wandelaar 2021-09-24 13:33

In Belgium, average cost of electricity increased by quite 25 % between 2020 and 2021.
From 0.2326 € per kWh in 2020 to 0.2897 € per kWh in 2021

Uncwilly 2021-09-24 13:38

For reference there is an old thread about the price of moving electrons back and forth.
[url]https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15011[/url]

I still pay a voluntary charge so that my provider buys contracts so all my power is "green". They have slowly ramped up the amount of renewables that they are buying. It was about 8% when I first started paying extra (1% was the dedicated "green" source) and 65% or more coal. Now renewables have averaged over 30% the last few years and coal only about 33%.

xilman 2021-09-24 14:39

[QUOTE=pinhodecarlos;588563]Way to save is to stop all your computers, shutdown AC, you don’t need it.
Gas price is also raising to match electricity (descarbonisation).

Edit: BTW, we left Europe, this island is going north…lol[/QUOTE]
[pedant]the UK has not left Europe. The UK has left the European Union[/pedant]

pinhodecarlos 2021-09-24 14:58

[QUOTE=xilman;588587][pedant]the UK has not left Europe. The UK has left the European Union[/pedant][/QUOTE]

For the majority of the British people is the same.

a1call 2021-09-24 16:20

In the Real-World, Europe is a subcontinent of Asia much like what is India, but Europeans would have you believe otherwise.
Not sure how England would fit. Is Sri Lanka part of Asia? :smile:

pinhodecarlos 2021-09-24 17:09

Sometimes it’s England (Soccer) sometimes it’s United Kingdom (Olympics). I don’t understand the logic behind it.

Uncwilly 2021-09-24 20:44

[QUOTE=pinhodecarlos;588612]Sometimes it’s England (Soccer) sometimes it’s United Kingdom (Olympics). I don’t understand the logic behind it.[/QUOTE]
That is a Wale of a problem to figure out, especially after a bit of Scotch. It is an Éire problem.

ATH 2021-09-24 21:24

I just got an email from the power company where they are warning me that prices are going up. The next 3 months could be 30% higher than the same period last year, and that is saying something, as I have ranted many times about the power prices here in Denmark.

M344587487 2021-09-25 07:03

The best time to supplement a grid supply with DIY renewables was years ago, the second best time is now right before every other bugger figures it out.

Uncwilly 2021-09-25 15:49

[QUOTE=M344587487;588649]The best time to supplement a grid supply with DIY renewables was years ago, the second best time is now right before every other bugger figures it out.[/QUOTE]The easiest DIY for solar is a system that allows users to plug the panels into a standard AC outlet to backfeed the grid. The prongs are not live until the controller senses the wall power. They can be strung together. No electrician is required.

dcheuk 2021-09-25 16:14

Just moved from the north to FL. I thought I was about to go broke because of AC bill. In PA whenever I uses AC in the summer my electric bill goes sky high (effective rate was about 0.24/kWh) but in contrary my electric bill in FL was much cheaper even though I cranked central AC 24/7. Anyways looking forward to winter as I doubt I'll need heat in florida. :smile:


Our utilities provider (the city itself) gave us two options: (i) flat rate of 0.1244/kWh or (ii) 0.0574/kWh 7pm-7am + 0.2198/kWh 7am-7pm. The city utilities also said they are committing to go 100% clean, renewable energy by ........ 2050 lol. Hopefully by then it still matters.

kriesel 2021-09-25 17:06

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;588680]The easiest DIY for solar is a system that allows users to plug the panels into a standard AC outlet to backfeed the grid. The prongs are not live until the controller senses the wall power. They can be strung together. No electrician is required.[/QUOTE]Who's selling such hardware? I've never seen that.

a1call 2021-09-25 17:15

[QUOTE]

A May 2015 article in Forbes magazine calculated that using a Tesla Powerwall 1 model combined with solar panels in a home would cost 30 cents/kWh for electricity if a home remains connected to the grid (the article acknowledges that the Tesla battery could make economic sense in applications that are entirely off-grid). US consumers got electricity from the power grid for 12.5 cents/kWh on average. The article concluded the "...Tesla's Powerwall Is Just Another Toy For Rich Green People.

[/QUOTE]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Powerwall[/url]

kriesel 2021-09-25 17:51

I recently looked at what would be involved in getting a rooftop solar array approved and installed. The [URL="https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/psc/119.pdf"]regs[/URL] here require approval of plans by the local electric utility monopoly, specify net metering, and selling excess power into the grid past the home's monthly usage (negative net usage, feeding the grid on average) pays ~1/4 the cost to purchase power from the utility, provision of documentation to the utility and IIRC local government, etc. Liability insurance is also required; no idea what that costs. Coverage for hail and wind damage to panels may vary. [URL]https://www.progressive.com/answers/does-home-insurance-cover-solar-panels/[/URL] [URL]https://www.nationwide.com/lc/resources/home/articles/solar-panel-insurance[/URL] [URL]https://www.travelers.com/business-insurance/energy/renewable/solar-power[/URL] Adding lightning rods and other protection might be advisable, since a panel array and its framing is a big electrical circuit on top of the house.

Uncwilly 2021-09-25 18:13

[QUOTE=kriesel;588688]Who's selling such hardware? I've never seen that.[/QUOTE]
I found this:
[url]https://pluggedsolar.com/expandable-320-watt-plug-and-play-solar-panel-power-simply-plug-into-wall-expandable-to-740watts-solar-panels/[/url]
I searched "plug in solar". I saw a product at a local "state fair" type event several years ago. The system that I saw could handle multiple panels. And if you know your home circuits you could distribute them on different breakers.

kriesel 2021-09-25 18:46

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;588696]I found this[/QUOTE]Thx. That firm's in Texas. Regs vary by state. I have a little array on my deck, but it's an isolated 12Vdc system. Does an ok job of providing a bit of direct DC lighting, spare battery charging, or rarely powering a small inverter. No grid tie regs issue because it's completely isolated.
For what little power per unit area/year would be produced, here in WI, it looks like a lot of time, cost, learning curve, hassle and liability for little savings.

pinhodecarlos 2021-09-25 18:59

Don’t forget you will need also to request for a roof survey to understand if the extra load can be handle by your home. This should account for rooftop structure, snow forecast, water ingress forecast, wind loads, etc. I would also advice to get the solar PV inverter online, wired to Ethernet, to reduce servicing since the majority of a solar PV issues can be easily fixed this way, like rearranging strings, detection of optimiser issues, etc.

JWNoctis 2021-09-26 06:09

Actually had a silly idea of running custom loops into water heater tank in place of a solar thermal panel. Don't actually try that at home though, since it'd probably violate more codes than an unshuttered and readily flammable universal power socket hanging by its aluminium wire, which is also wired in reverse and without grounding.

But if your system is consuming enough power to be useful as heating, it's probably also running well above its best efficiency point, server farms and multi-GPU crunchers excluded.

For the good old single-socket home PC though, the best efficiency point now usually comes in at something under 5W per physical core for the common latest-generation processor, and typical Prime95/mprime load, in my limited experience.

storm5510 2021-09-26 17:29

[QUOTE=JWNoctis;588725]...But if your system is consuming enough power to be useful as heating, it's probably also running well above its best efficiency point, server farms and multi-GPU crunchers excluded...
[/QUOTE]

I fall into the category of a "multi-GPU cruncher." I have three, all in one room. Running all of them keeps my AC busier than the proverbial one-legged man at an a** kicking contest. My current service rate still holds at around $0.135 per kWh. Even so, I have gotten statements from my provider which show as much as $30 USD higher than normal. I had cut back considerably. Sometimes, I run two, and others only one. I intend to part with the third which I do not use at all now. A person must adapt.


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