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kriesel 2021-02-07 19:29

Loose solid rock salt (mined, crushed mostly sodium chloride) sprinkled on roadways by dispensers on the back of dump trucks is not very effective application. Some of it bounces directly off the pavement, and more is scattered by tires of following vehicles, from where it is most useful, to where it is least useful. Depositing brine in stripes that dries onto the pavement ahead of a storm is more effective use of the salt; it stays where it will be later useful, allowing equal effectiveness for much less salt introduced into the environment. It also has a lot of surface area per unit mass so is effective quicker. Groundwater and ecosystems are being affected by road salt use. [URL]https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2018/12/11/road-salt-harms-environment/[/URL]

Salted sand is used at low temperatures when salt is not very effective, or completely ineffective, and also as a substitute to reduce the corrosive and ecological effects of salt. Sand costs less than salt. Some salt in the sand is beneficial as it usually prevents wet sand from freezing into big clumps before application to the road. If it's too cold for that to work, we should probably stay home if possible. [URL]https://www.cargill.com/at-what-temperature-does-rock-salt-stop-working[/URL]

It's a safe bet they're not using [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbide"]calcium carbide[/URL] on roadways. That produces acetylene gas when reacted with water on contact, and is far more costly.

xilman 2021-02-07 19:46

[QUOTE=kriesel;571105]It's a safe bet they're not using [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbide"]calcium carbide[/URL] on roadways. That produces acetylene gas when reacted with water.[/QUOTE]As well as being far too expensive to manufacture and use in bulk.

CaCl[SUB]2[/SUB], OTOH, is a largely useless industrial by-product of the Solvay process.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-02-08 00:42

It looks like it's not snowing in most of [url=http://alarm.noodweercentrale.nl/]the Netherlands[/url] now. A lot of cold temperatures and some slippery icy roads, though. Looks like around -5 C (low 20's F) in a lot of the country. Maybe the canals can freeze over after all.

[b]EDIT:[/b] The snowstorm in Germany made the news, with a mention of the Netherlands included. [url=https://apnews.com/article/hannover-storms-berlin-weather-germany-43a7d596ae14df2fd3d13b6543e882ef]Heavy snowstorm pounds Germany, upends travel[/url][quote]In the Netherlands, snow blanketed much of the country, forcing the government to cancel a weekly crisis meeting to discuss the coronavirus pandemic. Train services were suspended and Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport warned passengers of possible flight cancellations.

National broadcaster NOS showed images of an early morning snowball fight involving residents and police on Amsterdam's central Dam Square.

The Dutch meteorological office KNMI raised its weather warning to code red for the whole country.[/quote]

chalsall 2021-02-08 00:47

[QUOTE=kriesel;571105]That produces acetylene gas when reacted with water on contact, and is far more costly.[/QUOTE]

Ah, the memories...

Blew out both my ear-drums (and placed iron-based shrapnel in my eyes at high speed) playing with that gas as a child.

I can replay that moment in my head at approximately 120 FPS (including the audio stream; the sudden blindness and audio buzz was quite immediate).

An experiment that went wrong as a child means I can't have an MRI to this day.

Sorry for the tangent... :wink:

Dr Sardonicus 2021-02-08 01:06

[QUOTE=kriesel;571105] It's a safe bet they're not using [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbide"]calcium carbide[/URL] on roadways. That produces acetylene gas when reacted with water on contact, and is far more costly.[/QUOTE]The only use of any carbide on roadways I could think of was tire studs, which are made of tungsten carbide, an extremely hard material used in many implements of destruction. Studded tires can provide traction on ice or hard packed snow, but are so destructive to pavement, they're illegal in a number of states, and their use is limited in others.

Uncwilly 2021-02-08 02:08

Use of waste materials with like dried whey and other organic off casts have been used for roadway deicing. They perform similar function to salt, but are largely better for the surrounding biota. Decomposed granite (DG) and diatomaceous earth are spread for grippiness.

BTW, the way I heard it about Herr F., being an instrument maker, he knew that powers of 2 are easy to produce on a scale. 0 to 32 is one such number. 32 to 96 is another such number. (I have had to work with decimal feet. There are [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]96[/FONT] [FONT="Courier New"]1/8"[/FONT] in a foot. That is close enough that dealing with the extra 0.01 foot per 3" is easy.)

storm5510 2021-02-08 14:48

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;571102]..There is a treatment put [I]on top[/I] of packed snow and ice on roads called "antiskid." It's something like very coarse sand, possibly with a little salt mixed in. It provides traction on top of packed snow or ice, but whatever hasn't already wound up off the road clogging the storm drains etc has to be cleaned off the pavement later on.[/QUOTE]

There's a big coal-fired power plant close to where I live. Many of the counties around go there to get loads of cinders to spread on snow-packed roads. It works somewhat. However, in the spring when the snow is gone and the roads are dry, the cinders can be as bad as Ice to drive on if a person gets too close to the edge of the roadway.

Till 2021-02-09 18:50

In my region, it all turned out fine.

As predicted we got a nice snow surface of ~20 cm in average (of course because of the wind it is 5cm in some places and 50cm in others). No ice rain except a little that fell on Saturday before the snowing started. Now we can enjoy the winter glory for at least a week since weather forecasts say that temperatures will stay below 0 degree Celsius. (but ok, yesterday it said that'ld be the case for at least 2 weeks)


Next night low is predicted to be -19 degree Celsius.

Nick 2021-02-09 22:17

[QUOTE=Till;571225]In my region, it all turned out fine.[/QUOTE]
Glad to hear you're OK!
No big problems here, either. And now that the storn has passed,
everyone is getting their ice skates out of storage.

chalsall 2021-02-09 22:29

[QUOTE=Nick;571235]Glad to hear you're OK![/QUOTE]

Indeed. Chaotic systems can be a bit to deal with as end products.

I raise beverage to you all, at approximately 0 degrees C.

H[sub]2[/sub]O ice cubes take enthalpy to create.

Worth the investment, from time to time...

:chalsall:

petrw1 2021-02-10 02:58

Warming up here
 
1 Attachment(s)
10 degrees warmer than yesterday.
NOTE: This is Celsius.


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