-   Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates (
-   -   White 34 (

cheesehead 2014-07-01 10:39

Updated analysis:

[B]34 Bh3+[/B]

If [B]34 ... Nf5 [/B][B]35 g4[/B]

If [B]35 ... Bd4+[/B] [B]36 Kh1 [/B](NOT 36 Kg2 Nh4+ 37 Kg3 g5) and continues as in another branch.

If [B]35 ... Nf3+[/B] [B]36 Kh1 [/B](NOT 36 Kg2 Nh4+ 37 Kg3 g5) and continues as in another branch.

If [B]35 ... Ne7[/B] threatens to swap knights so as to lessen our attack. We should avoid that swap except on our own terms, I think.
If [B]36 g5+ Kf7[/B] (not ... Kd5 or ... Ke5 37 Nxe7) [B]37 Nd6+ Kg7[/B](forced)[B] 38 Rb7[/B]
Here note that Black cannot protect the N/e7 with his B on this move 38. (E.g., 38 ... Bb4 39 Rxe7+ Kf8 40 Re6 hxg5 41 Rxg6)
If [B]38 ... Kf8 39 gxh6[/B] threatening 40 Rb8+ Nc8 (forced) 41 Rxc8+ and 42 Rxc3
If [B]39 ... B-move(except Bd4+) 40 Rb8+ Nc8 41 Rxc8+ Ke7[/B] we're a rook up.
If [B]39 ... Bd4+ 40 Kh1[/B] and Black still cannot stop Rb8+ except by sacrificing his B, so game proceeds as in other branches.
If [B]39 ... Nf5 40 Rb8+ Ke7 41 Nxf5+[/B]
If [B]41 ... gxf5 42 h7[/B] and 43 h8/Q Bxh8 44 Rxh8.
If [B]41 ... Kf7 42 h7[/B] and 43 h8/Q Bxh8 44 Rxh8.
If 39 ... ???
If 38 ... ???

If [B]35 ... Nd6[/B] [B]36 g5+
[/B]If [B]36 ... Kd5[/B] (not ... Kf7 37 Nxd6)
With the Black knight on d6 instead of e7, trading knights helps us by ensuring our g-pawn's advance (or material gain).
[B]37 Nxd6
[/B]If [B]37 ... Kxd6 38 gxh6[/B] and[B] h7 etc.
[/B]If [B]37 ... hxg5 38 Nf7 etc.
[/B]If [B]36 ... Ke5 37 Nxd6
[/B]If [B]37 ... [/B][B][B]Kxd6 38 gxh6[/B] and[B] h7 etc.
[/B][/B]If [B][B]37 ... hxg6 38 Nf7+
[/B][/B]If [B][B]38 ... Kf4 or Kf6 39[/B] ????[/B] We're up a rook for a pawn.If [B][B]38 ... [/B]???? [/B]We're up a rook for a pawn.

[strike]If [B]35 ... Ng3 36 hxg3[/B][/strike]

If [B]35 ... Nd4 or Nd6 or Ne3 or Ng7 or Nh4 36 g5+[/B] and now we have two branches, depending on Black's king move:

If [B]36 ... Kd5 or Ke5 or Ke7 37 gxh6[/B] and?

If [B]36 ... Kf7 37 gxh6[/B]
If [B]37 ... Kg8[/B]
If [B]38 Rb7[/B] and now Black has a wide variety of possibilities, so I'll just list every legal move:
If [B]38 ... Ba1 or [/B][B]Bb2 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Bd4+ 39 Kh1 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Be5 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Bf6 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Bg7 39 Rxg7+ ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Bh8 39 ????[/B]

If [B]38 ... Nb1 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Nb3 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Nc4 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Ne4 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Nf1 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Ndf3+ 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... g5[/B] threatening ... Ng8 [B]39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Kf8 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Kh8 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Nhf3+ 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Nf5 39 ????[/B]
If [B]38 ... Ng2 39 ????

LaurV 2014-07-01 14:42

Very good that g4 move! Actually the last analysis looks very good for us. I think I will play 34 Bh3+ and give them the ball... They may answer fast, and we get another weekend. Not that we would need one. The game is played.

cheesehead 2014-07-02 00:34

[B][U]NO! NO! NO! Don't ever do that![/U][/B]

[U][B][I]I warned you on at least one earlier move not to post a move before we had explicit agreement on it!! (Have you forgotten that? Apparently so)[/I][/B][/U]

[B][U]We never voted on that move, LaurV!!![/U][/B]

We were still only in the middle of analyzing it!!!!

We had NOT FINISHED analyzingt it!!!

Our deadline is still four days away!!! There was no need whatsoever to post that move now!

cheesehead 2014-07-02 00:49

I have just now posted, [URL=""]on the "Vote Chess game 2" thread, the following:[/URL] [quote]I have to register a protest:

I was shocked to discover just now that LaurV had posted that move.

Our team [U]had not yet voted on a move.[/U]

We hadn't finished analyzing the move LaurV posted. LaurV could have easily seen that there were still many, many question marks in our analysis tree.

LaurV had neither reason, [B]nor agreement by other team members[/B], to post a move this long before our move deadline![/quote]

cheesehead 2014-07-02 01:00

... and LaurV, [U]I've discovered another previously-unanticipated Black response to 34 Bh3+[/U] that we've not yet analyzed for its full implications!
Your hasty, unauthorized action may have cost us a win.

You did not have agreement of other team members either to post a move this soon before our deadline, or to post that particular move .. [U]and you had previously been warned not to be hasty in posting moves before we had full team agreement.[/U]

In view of all that, I'm considering (but have not yet actually taken this step) formally requesting that our team be assigned a new captain, or formally resigning from this team myself [strike](but have not yet actually taken that step, either)[/strike].

Update: I've officially posted that I'm resigning from this team.

- - -


You've thrown away the hours of work I put into analysis of this move -- which is not yet finished. So, it seems that I'm no longer needed on this team. Good bye.

I'm now deleting the note where I recorded the password for this discussion, so that I won't post here again.

Remember, LaurV, it's not just that you posted prematurely this time, it's that you posted prematurely this time _after I specifically warned you not to do that_ and _after I made that warning not just once, but multiple times earlier in this game._

LaurV 2014-07-02 03:01

Ok, I just saw all the rigmarole.

WMH, are you still with me here? I posted my opinion in the public forum. I want to know if we continue, or if I am out. After all, I don't give a dime, it is just a game.

WMHalsdorf 2014-07-02 15:21

I'm still here. Being a diabetic means that on occasions I have to pay more attention to my health than other things when my sugar level are higher than normal for more than a day. I had not finished the response of Nf5 to Bh3+ being following with g4 when I saw the posting of our move. I had figured you both had come to an agreement about Bh3+. I was hoping for some extra time to go thru some more what ifs in that line. Right now this a transition from the middle game to an end game such that when any exchange of material has to be considered with how will the remaining will work to achieve a win. I would suggest that 2 days before our response is needed that we at least reduce the number of replies to a reasonable number in this case I saw only 2 moves Rb6+ (winning on the Q-side) and Bh3+ (with the possibility of winning on either side thus requiring a much deeper analysis) Besides I don't think g4 is the best response to Nf5.

LaurV 2014-07-02 16:00

No problem man, take care about yourself, the health is more important than this freaking game here. We are doing good in the game, we could do even better with 33 Nb5 :wink:, but now what's done is done. I kept my mouth shut in the past from respect for cheesehead's work, but I still have this feeling we could play much better in few cases. Anyhow, I posted 34 Bh3, the damage is done, sorry for it (I can say sorry to you, to drag you on this dispute without your fault), let's see black team's reply to the 34 Bh3.

Assuming they play the horse, I also thing that g4 is not the best move.
We can do better with 35 Rb6.

Looking to cheesehead's last "speculative scenario" few posts above, he suggested 36 Kh1. This is not a bad move (hehe, cheesehead's ghost still haunting the thread :razz:), because is taking the king out of the link, so we can play Rb6 without being afraid of black Bd4. Kg2 is not good (indeed!) because of the horse check after Nc4 Bxf5. But if we play now after 34...Nf5, 3[COLOR=Red][B][U]5[/U][/B][/COLOR] Kh1 (!) this is [U]strong[/U], black can't do nothing, their pieces are totally linked each other.

So, If they move the horse, I thing our choice is between 35 Rb6+ and 35 Kh1.

Batalov 2014-07-03 02:05

Retracting a move is highly irregular, and we haven't done that in these 1.5 games. I'd rather not break the general rules of chess: "You touch - you move".

But if either one or all of you want to create a precedent, then discuss and post your decision in the main thread. Or let me know, and I will post that either the move is retracted or that the move stays as is.

LaurV 2014-07-03 02:57

We are not "retracting" anything. That was the best move we could do. My wording like "the damage is done" was related to the argument with cheesehead that I posted too early, and not to the fact that the move was wrong.

Batalov 2014-07-03 03:16


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